tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post1768563709947692701..comments2023-11-03T06:02:02.128-07:00Comments on By Ken Levine: The Problem with Multi-Camera ShowsBy Ken Levinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17305293821975250420noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-77768282007638647892011-10-26T12:28:39.947-07:002011-10-26T12:28:39.947-07:00@Johnny Walker: Yes, and and 2 1/2 Men (and House)...@Johnny Walker: Yes, and and 2 1/2 Men (and House) also kind of behaves as though patronizing prostitutes is a cute quirk. In HIMYM, though, you have the balancing effect of Marshall, who has many times made the point that he's proud of having only ever slept with Lily and sees that as much greater success with women. And Ted's role model is very much Marshall, not Barney.<br /><br />One show I imagine hardly any of you will know that went to town on making fun of sitcom tropes - in this case, the absurd coincidences that abound - was the British series Chance in a Million. It starred the wonderful Simon Callow and Brenda Blethyn in some of their earliest roles. Callow played the lead role, a man who from birth had been beset by a constant stream of strange and improbable coincidences. He is so frequently arrested that many of his local police know him so well they don't arrest him no matter what happens. He refers to his problem as a disability, and is astonished when, in the pilot, Blethyn (whom he meets by mistake at a hotel when they both have blind dates with other people) pretty much instantly goes along with whatever happens without getting too upset by it.<br /><br />They made a great team, and it was a hysterically funny show. Sadly, not available commercially although the first season was at one point released on video in the US and you can still sometimes get that from Amazon. Highly recommended.<br /><br />wgWendy M. Grossmanhttp://www.pelicancrossing.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-73966669740210413562011-10-26T11:53:45.547-07:002011-10-26T11:53:45.547-07:00To be fair to the Big Bang Theory pilot, while I a...To be fair to the Big Bang Theory pilot, while I agree with you that most women would not follow the creepy masturbators into their apartment (or would at least ask for clarification before doing so), one thing we soon learn about Penny is that she's very confident about her physical strength. I say it's just about plausible that our favorite Nebraska farm girl sized up Sheldon and Leonard and thought, "I can take these guys with a single kick," and decided the shower (and free lunch) was worth the risk.<br /><br />My friends and I were far more bothered by the implausibility that two working physicists couldn't afford a T1 line.<br /><br />wgWendy M. Grossmanhttp://www.pelicancrossing.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-2815674175289619752011-10-25T05:12:29.747-07:002011-10-25T05:12:29.747-07:00Great post! To further your point of people speak...Great post! To further your point of people speaking unnaturally, this was the season of the horny friend/co-worker. "2 Broke Girls" (the chef), "Whitney" (Roxanne and Mark), "Free Agents" (close your eyes and point and you'd have a 50% success rate), to name a few.<br /><br />Also, doesn't multi-camera breed "the reaction shot"?<br /><br />As pop culture goes, so do the worn-out phrases. In the 1970's, when they aired failed pilots I remember two different shows that had characters going to the bathroom, which prompted someone to say, "Don't take anything to read!".<br /><br />Here are some cliches I am glad to see gone:<br /><br /> - The Dr. Laura characters<br /><br /> - The "Iron John" parodies (even "Cheers" fell prey to that, along with "Anything But Love" and "Designing Women"(!))<br /><br /> - "Cut to the chase"<br /><br /> - "Comedy!" (i.e. "Give me that" "Here you go"[character then pulls away desired object and says] "Comedy!"<br /><br />"The Heartbreak of Psoriasis" (once again, at least two shows harped on this)<br /><br />Sadly, I still don't think we are rid of "(So) let me get this straight..." and its whiny sibling, "You mean to tell me..."<br /><br />I wish I had a dime for every time I posted,<br />BrianBrian Phillipshttp://ultrasonicremote.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-50766857783958524242011-10-25T00:18:07.593-07:002011-10-25T00:18:07.593-07:00Bad writing is bad writing. Forumlaic writing is ...Bad writing is bad writing. Forumlaic writing is formulaic writing. The number of cameras photographing the writing doesn't change that.<br /><br />I have no idea why single camera shows became trendy. (I had a friend who pitched a sitcom and was told to turn it into a multi-camera show.) Maybe people in Hollywood get tired of live shows, but based on ratings, the audience never did.<br /><br />Both forms can be fun, but most of my favorite sitcoms were multi-camera. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I think the actors' energy is up when they have to perform in front of an audience, and that livens up the show.Larrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-3723931222000944422011-10-24T20:56:18.969-07:002011-10-24T20:56:18.969-07:002 Broke Girls just tonight had this exchange
Max...2 Broke Girls just tonight had this exchange <br /><br />Max: "Let me see what you're drawing Johnny. A rat with a Civil War Hat. Is that your comment on how politicians view soldiers?" <br /><br />Johnny: "No, it's an actual rat I saw with a hat on."Sean Kernannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-10298669113380134612011-10-24T19:39:05.447-07:002011-10-24T19:39:05.447-07:00I'd rather have multi-camera than a show filme...I'd rather have multi-camera than a show filmed like a drama like ""Modern Family". I guess I'm so used to the multi-camera format that sit-coms that aren't multi-cam feel like they are bombing to me. To me it's like watching a baseball player swing a hockey stick.Ike Iszanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00242135666260861294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-60164845655138895572011-10-24T12:02:45.533-07:002011-10-24T12:02:45.533-07:00Ken:
This requires more Googling than I can do at...Ken:<br /><br />This requires more Googling than I can do at the moment, but the Big Bang scene you mention I believe was from the original UNAIRED pilot. The scene was retooled for the broadcast version.Donald Liebensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-62350734178476155742011-10-24T11:09:45.181-07:002011-10-24T11:09:45.181-07:00Wow, great post. It reminds me of (I think) Sam Si...Wow, great post. It reminds me of (I think) Sam Simon's complaint about 90% of sitcoms: Everyone is a sarcastic wise-ass. For some reason it became really popular for everyone in a sitcom to become an insult machine. In real-life you'd just hate to have those people as friends.<br /><br />The thing about The Simpsons is that there's not a single character who does that. This is possibly why, 50(?) years on, The Simpsons still feels partially fresh, even when a lot of the jokes have become stale... Nobody else is doing what they're doing.<br /><br />Another thing I've become tired of in sitcoms at the moment (although it's more on grounds of taste) is the notion that a "successful" male is someone who is a womanizer. Both The Big Bang Theory and Two and A Half Men do it, and so does, surprisingly, How I Met Your Mother.<br /><br />The audience knows it's "naughty", and characters may chastise the womanizer, but it's all done with a knowing wink to the camera: He's the guy cool, really.<br /><br />It's more obvious with Two and A Half Men: As maligned by the other characters Charlie was, the sitcom regularly painted Alan, a regular guy, single parent, as a loser... and Charlie as the successful one. Almost entirely on their "success" with (i.e. ability to use and throw away) women.<br /><br />And I'm not talking about the lovably evil Barney when I mention How I Met Your Mother, either. Sometimes the show slips and Ted becomes more like Barney for the sake of an easy plot. Hell, even the female characters are shown cheering on or helping Barney at times.<br /><br />Thinking about it, I guess this is why Ken loved Coupling so much: It successfully did something different with the multi-camera format.Johnny Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13302545167970532080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-78917170466044583002011-10-24T10:41:04.226-07:002011-10-24T10:41:04.226-07:00The convention of people discussing things as they...The convention of people discussing things as they enter the room actually doesn't bother me. We accept that most of the action takes place on these few sets, and I'd much rather see the characters discuss it there then have the show do some rear-projected car scene for the sake of realism. It's just a theatre convention, and theatre is what a multi-cam show basically is. <br /><br />What really bothers me is when the conversation is phrased in such a way that the characters are telling each other things they already know. But that's just bad exposition.Jaime J. Weinmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15128500411119962998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-32848358902601606592011-10-24T09:07:33.883-07:002011-10-24T09:07:33.883-07:00Rob G, you're absolutely right! A variation is...Rob G, you're absolutely right! A variation is when the two characters enter the house or apartment saying "That was a great restaurant (or movie, or whatever)." And I always think, why didn't they discuss that in the car on the way home?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-24197430487398209462011-10-24T09:07:04.667-07:002011-10-24T09:07:04.667-07:00As far as I know, it always comes down to the char...As far as I know, it always comes down to the characters.<br /><br />Create good characters, who have some motivation, and some reason for being involved with the other characters, and everything else should flow somewhat naturally. Even the jokes.Eduardo Jencarellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393598179614372710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-88408405012607703722011-10-24T07:39:31.734-07:002011-10-24T07:39:31.734-07:00Here's my personal favorite. Two characters e...Here's my personal favorite. Two characters enter a room. One is seemingly peeved at the other. And the argument begins:<br /><br />Ralph: I can't believe you did that!<br /><br />Potsie: Why? What was so wrong about it?<br /><br />Apparently, the two characters must have walked/driven over in complete silence!Rob Greenbergnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-42956784741038672952011-10-24T05:17:11.694-07:002011-10-24T05:17:11.694-07:00I really like the flip scene. I've never actua...I really like the flip scene. I've never actually written one, and I can't actually imagine myself writing one (which sounds so snobby that I'm making myself feel ill), but I rarely find myself dreading the inevitable cheap joke. Usually, looking forward to it.<br /><br />If I were to try and dissect it I might go on about dramatic irony and how for five seconds you know so much more than the characters - the incongruity of the people on screen denying so fervently what we know to be certain - but I'd be lying out of my teeth. <br /><br />I just love looking forward to the silly, tacky joke, and that's all there is to it. I can't disagree with you in principle, but in practice, I relish it every time.<br /><br />Superb post!Rob Websternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-38188905958104883262011-10-24T01:12:23.796-07:002011-10-24T01:12:23.796-07:00@ Matt & Blaze Morgan...I'm sure someone W...@ Matt & Blaze Morgan...I'm sure someone WAY more savvy than me should answer this but I would say:<br /><br />A multi-camera show is typically filmed before a live audience so the rhythm of the jokes and the way they are written is different than a single camera show. Because it is being filmed live multiple cameras are filming the same scene from different angles so they do fewer takes. <br /><br />Ken had a great blog about when jokes "died" when they were filming and they'd have to come up with a new one really quickly. That's a multi-camera show challenge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-20096454394547630292011-10-24T00:58:12.601-07:002011-10-24T00:58:12.601-07:00Great post! Really hits the mark with the examples...Great post! Really hits the mark with the examples. The use of a "double-take" is probably belonging on that list, but done sparingly, even that theatrical of gestures can be funny still. The same list can be made with drama, there is a whole generation of young actresses that had a set of gestures they used to the point it remains easy to parody them. You'd think they all had the same acting instructor.Arthur F.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-16543180169936143562011-10-23T22:07:41.238-07:002011-10-23T22:07:41.238-07:00I can't understand what people see in The Big ...I can't understand what people see in The Big Bang Theory. I tried to watch it a few times recently and can't last 5 minutes before I'm changing the channel. The show is awful. I'd put any episode of Spaced or The IT Crowd up against it for sincere geeky laughs any day.Brian Berryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01061570266468418880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-14043388597767780682011-10-23T21:01:15.429-07:002011-10-23T21:01:15.429-07:00I know I'm in the minority, but Raymond is the...I know I'm in the minority, but Raymond is the most formulaic sitcom I have ever seen. How it gets praised as some kind of classic comedy is baffling to me. Stock characters like the meddling in-laws, nagging wife, jealous brother, and dorky "everyman" lead, with jokes and punchlines I can see from a mile away. I tried to watch it after reading the glowing reviews it received, and I still don't understand how people complain about the predictability of multi-camera sitcoms, yet rave about this overrated show. Of course, this is just my opinion.Ericnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-63641985591250181172011-10-23T20:35:32.470-07:002011-10-23T20:35:32.470-07:00@Anonymous 6:59 PM,
They did eventually start tell...@Anonymous 6:59 PM,<br />They did eventually start telling the Seinfeld audience to stop going wild upon an entrance from Kramer.selection7noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-54593248221712965372011-10-23T18:59:34.321-07:002011-10-23T18:59:34.321-07:00John wrote: "The problem on L&S being onc...John wrote: "The problem on L&S being once the phenomenon wears off, future syndication audiences can't figure out what's supposed to be so funny that the studio audience is going wild about"<br /><br />That is also the case with Kramer on "Seinfeld". All he had to do was swing open the door to Jerry's apartment and the crowd went wild. It seems to mostly be the case roughly in the middle of the series though, IIRC. Maybe the crowd was admonished to stop doing it, because frankly it's kinda embarrassing seeing it now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-21211499777139080112011-10-23T18:43:12.045-07:002011-10-23T18:43:12.045-07:00Surprised no one brought up "2 and a half Men...Surprised no one brought up "2 and a half Men" (also created by Chuck Lorre from "BBT") but both shows have a pacing that is unusual from the rest of the MC shows. The unexpected. When Alan says to Charlie "you are a womanizing man whore" Charlie responds "I know! Thats what I love about me!" Not unusual for the show and the characters, but for most shows there would be some kind of disgust and incredulation. "How dare you say that about me?" Debra from 'Raymond' would say.<br /><br />Thats why that show and BBT have thrived in the single camera world. I loved the comment about how "It would be a shame if Multi-Camera shows died off. The "mock-doc" format seems very tired now." Agree! Cant watch most of them.<br /><br />Also think the Nick/Disney Channel comment was pretty right on too. Kids dont think about this kinda stuff...they just want to see if Sam and Freddie will kiss. And the parents know what to expect, so its all safe and familiar with them.<br /><br />Hope 2 Broke Girls survives as well--while its good and has a sweet time slot, its a pretty formula sitcom. And kinda mean...but has room to grow...Craig Russellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-45378595370443993902011-10-23T17:42:22.377-07:002011-10-23T17:42:22.377-07:00The pilot for "The Big Bang Theory" put ...The pilot for "The Big Bang Theory" put me off the show for two years. If I hadn't gotten a fairly consistent drumbeat of "It's gotten much better, really!" reviews, I wouldn't have picked it back up today.<br /><br />Do actors ever come back and say, "Really, is this realistic?" when something like that situation is written into the script? For "The Big Bang Theory," I doubt anyone would have done that for the pilot episode -- but say, two or three years in. Not that it's a good comparable to "The Big Bang Theory" or "The Odd Couple," but according to one of the many "Brady Bunch" books (don't ask me which) after one taping where she had to say a particularly ridiculous line, Susan Olsen (Cindy) asked her mother if her character was supposed to be retarded.Curt Alliaumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05875046706746482871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-691063374773632192011-10-23T17:01:46.773-07:002011-10-23T17:01:46.773-07:00I am not in the industry at all. I am just a fan ...I am not in the industry at all. I am just a fan of TV and your blog. So maybe I am missing something that is obvious to others, but I don't quite understand why the joke structure is different from a multi-camera show and a single camera show. Seems to me that jokes are jokes.<br /><br />Could you elaborate what the difference is? Maybe in a Friday question.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11777496001166356949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-53721911081136004262011-10-23T16:21:26.997-07:002011-10-23T16:21:26.997-07:00On a recent channel surf I stopped to watch a new ...On a recent channel surf I stopped to watch a new drama--forget which one. Every time a character spoke a line of dialogue he or she was shown in three different camera angles. I switched it off after two minutes.Cap'n Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783977137812876489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-77348324783185860442011-10-23T15:23:39.232-07:002011-10-23T15:23:39.232-07:00I'm really missing some key aspect of the indu...I'm really missing some key aspect of the industry here. What does the number of cameras have to do with, well, anything? One camera or a thousand cameras...what difference does this make to jokes, plot, characters, etc etc?Blaze Morgannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-14395907251608010932011-10-23T14:13:01.531-07:002011-10-23T14:13:01.531-07:00British shows are notorious for catchphrases. Even...British shows are <i>notorious</i> for catchphrases. Even their sketch shows can't get away from them for chrissakes. Their older sitcoms are well known for it, but even the newer ones seem to have the dividing line. The romantic in me wants to think they're fighting for the soul of British comedy, but in reality they'll probably both be around forever, in the same way people who prefer Leno to Conan will be around forever, providing they can find someone to feed them.<br /><br />Anyone that hasn't seen "Extras" should check it out. Gervais and Merchant pretty much dedicated the entire second series to panning Britain's beer-goggley love affair with catchphrases.Dan Tedsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16452847576600692673noreply@blogger.com