tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post1811943186276538838..comments2023-11-03T06:02:02.128-07:00Comments on By Ken Levine: ZERO DARK THIRTY: my reviewBy Ken Levinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17305293821975250420noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-31081429265423217362013-04-16T06:04:34.328-07:002013-04-16T06:04:34.328-07:00I believe Bigelow was not snubbed, her film wasn&#...I believe Bigelow was not snubbed, her film wasn't good enough that she should be considered for best directorTomhttp://www.jokesfb.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-16520835957952096842013-02-16T20:38:40.890-08:002013-02-16T20:38:40.890-08:00Sometimes a movie should be watched without too mu...Sometimes a movie should be watched without too much emphasis on the authenticity of the facts. Zero Dark Thirty is an attempt to showcase (even though it may not be entirely true) the biggest manhunt in history. Director Bigelow does more than justice to a impeccable script by keeping it as close to reality as she can. Maya (Chastain) has been spectacular in the entire movie, be it the initial timid looking fresh recruit or the bold and dynamic agent taking on superiors in making decisions that though to conclude upon. The rest of the star cast have been outstanding too. Some may complain that the movie is slow or could have been shorter, but I believe, the scenes have been so meticulously shot that can one feel the plethora of emotions each character is going through. The movies editing is perfect and the background score adds on to the intensity. Overall, Zero Dark Thirty is masterpiece and a perfect follow up to The Hurt Locker. Well done Bigelow!!!Dostihttp://hindisms.org/sms/dosti-smsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-57452949438231686622013-02-14T09:27:22.759-08:002013-02-14T09:27:22.759-08:00This is one of the best movie of all time. It give...This is one of the best movie of all time. It gives you feeling of real time, like you being there all the time with Maya. The actress is astonishing. A powerhouse performance!! Deserve to win all awards out there. This is a must watch movie if anyone is interested in knowing how US reached to Mr Laden. Patience is the key to success. Great movie!!Current Essayshttp://currentessays.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-15442177530807748782013-01-19T10:12:40.465-08:002013-01-19T10:12:40.465-08:00I thought it was a well-done movie, but it never f...I thought it was a well-done movie, but it never felt totally morally honest. You run that risk when you write a script based on what the CIA chooses to tell you and chooses to declassify. It can, then, at best be only a version of the truth. And, for a topic that is so recent, that so thoroughly still shapes people's beliefs on torture and the 'war on terrorism,' this movie will become the version of the truth that everyone accepts. And, for that, it feels too much like a PSA. A very well-done PSA.Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05176815956109059686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-12587783527099031912013-01-18T08:24:02.491-08:002013-01-18T08:24:02.491-08:00I don't think I will see this movie. I have b...I don't think I will see this movie. I have been in the military and it seems movie directors generally don't get the interaction of soldiers correct in my opinion. I would rather see a documentary on this that would be more interesting to me.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18082479246607518893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-59475935110035247472013-01-17T16:48:59.233-08:002013-01-17T16:48:59.233-08:00@Matt Bird
Why on earth would I WANT it to be tru...@Matt Bird<br /><br />Why on earth would I WANT it to be true? A "macho fantasy"? Are you kidding me? Personally, I've read reports that torture gets mixed results, not none. Again, that's not condoning anything nor is it some sort of bizarre wish fulfillment. EVerything I've read says that while they've gotten information from "torture", it's not reliable and probably does more harm than good. I don't like it. I wish it never happened. But I think it's pretty naive to say NO good information has come from it.Tim W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16860726607106078491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-25095628171696543392013-01-17T14:09:34.079-08:002013-01-17T14:09:34.079-08:00I read one the Bin Laden books written by the Sea...<br />I read one the Bin Laden books written by the Seal Team 6 guy who describes the "Maya" character as very shy and quiet. She was on the plane to Pakistan with them and in the hanger when they go back from the mission.TLBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-74411726991586482862013-01-17T11:54:47.797-08:002013-01-17T11:54:47.797-08:00From what I understand, torture is an ineffective ...From what I understand, torture is an ineffective method for extracting information, since a person will say anything to stop the pain - if they're even capable of thinking clearly at that point. We used to prosecute people who tortured - now it seems to be a badge of honor among some.<br /><br />Mike said...<br /><br />"Some people don't like that the film doesn't give them the clean talking point that Obama got Bin Laden and Bush was evil and wrong, since the torture that got the info happened while Bush was president."<br /><br />And yet it was Obama who "got" Bin Laden - that's no talking point, it's a fact. The way you can tell is that if Bush had done it, Republicans would have established a national holiday, erected statues with bulging crotches, and passed a bill to place his likeness on Mount Rushmore.<br /><br />Knowingly lying this nation into war and causing the deaths and maimings of countless thousands - then not showing an ounce of remorse but actually joking about it ("Now where are those WMDs? Heh heh heh..") constitutes evil in my book.RCPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251247613686669877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-58024702407100881342013-01-17T10:54:56.934-08:002013-01-17T10:54:56.934-08:00Tim W. says: "Saying the CIA got valuable inf...Tim W. says: "Saying the CIA got valuable information through "torture" is NOT an endorsement of it. It's simply an acceptance of reality. Something that some commenters here don't seem to be familiar with."<br /><br />The CIA itself says that it got no valuable information through torture. So do the congressional intelligence communities. So does every journalist who has interviewed those involved. The most prominent person saying otherwise is the director of "Point Break".<br /><br />Who's divorced from reality here?<br /><br />I understand why people want this movie to be true. It's a fun, macho fantasy. But that's all it is.Matt Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07319984238456281734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-87471250214447826642013-01-17T10:21:02.767-08:002013-01-17T10:21:02.767-08:00I think I saw a different ZDT than you folks did. ...I think I saw a different ZDT than you folks did. <br /><br />I saw a poorly written film with one dimensional characters that I could care less about. I believe Bigelow was not snubbed, her film wasn't good enough that she should be considered for best director. I'm not even clear why Ms. Chastain's weak acting skills are even being considered. The torture scenes were dull and predictable, the lone wolf against the world nonsense did little to move the plot along....<br /><br />I was extremely disappointed in this film as I was expecting a much better movie than what I saw....after several moments that I believe were meant to be serious the folks in the theater I was in burst out laughing. I can only assume from the ridiculous lines they were hearing.<br /><br />I did not see the movie in the same way you did, but I do appreciate your review. I am sorry I did not see it that way. Your blog is great, and I enjoy your words.<br /><br />Veritas Omnia Vincitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-42798976171550367722013-01-17T08:53:22.332-08:002013-01-17T08:53:22.332-08:00I love the internet. Ken's basically offhand ...I love the internet. Ken's basically offhand remark has turned into him condoning the torture of thousands. <br /><br />People need to get a grip and get off their high horses for a minute. <br /><br />Saying the CIA got valuable information through "torture" is NOT an endorsement of it. It's simply an acceptance of reality. Something that some commenters here don't seem to be familiar with.Tim W.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16860726607106078491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-53257581225177682912013-01-17T07:00:57.005-08:002013-01-17T07:00:57.005-08:00My fervent wish is that people would stop acting l...My fervent wish is that people would stop acting like Bush invented torture. For God's sake, people, go read a history book and discover that you don't get information out of the enemy by coddling them. Better yet, go read some firsthand accounts of 9/11 and remember what the terrorists did that day.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-59975550720822446782013-01-16T23:58:20.711-08:002013-01-16T23:58:20.711-08:00Oh, surely the author is an expert on torture -- h...Oh, surely the author is an expert on torture -- he worked on Frazier, after all, and watching that is torture by any measure. For normal people, anyhow.Jessica Hydenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-2152018526283016792013-01-16T23:18:50.240-08:002013-01-16T23:18:50.240-08:00Bill Harlow said..."Were the CIA’s “enhanced ...Bill Harlow said..."Were the CIA’s “enhanced interrogation techniques” necessary, effective, legal? In my view, as the former chief spokesman for that secret organization…yes, yes, and yes."<br /><br />Have you ever read the Constitution? It does not say 'torture' is illegal, it says "cruel and unusual punishment" is illegal - a far more general and sweeping term which includes not JUST torture but far less extreme measures like not giving prisoners enough food to eat.<br /><br />So uh, torture IS - under the Constitution - illegal - ESPECIALLY by those who take an oath to 'protect and defend the Constitution' (perhaps as a PR person you evaded having to do that). If the supposed legal 'loophole' of the US government shipping people off to be tortured in foreign countries is not illegal - it should be - it COMPLETELY violates the spirit of the Constitution.<br /><br />As for torture being effective, if you have an example of one or more famous historical battles that were won via specific intelligence gathered via torture, I'd be interested to know about it.<br /><br />In regards to Zero Dark Thirty - I won't contribute one red cent to a film that even MIGHT be promoting torture as a viable tactic for a supposedly civilized country to be participating in.-beenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-64282218129249268212013-01-16T22:45:58.873-08:002013-01-16T22:45:58.873-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Blair Iveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03428917942590969429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-61093999204435101602013-01-16T22:44:52.250-08:002013-01-16T22:44:52.250-08:00"How do you make a gripping thriller when eve..."How do you make a gripping thriller when everyone in the world knows the outcome?"<br /><br />Apollo 13Blair Iveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03428917942590969429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-7597201340619954832013-01-16T19:59:01.457-08:002013-01-16T19:59:01.457-08:00What I do not get is how the Obama administration ...What I do not get is how the Obama administration can give this information to the people who developed this move and then turn around to announce that this very information is classified?<br /><br />Huh?<br /><br />I am sure this film is very good. I liked Hurt Locker a lot. I cannot watch this film ever because of how the Obama administration actively supported its development while actively opposing people who are want to review the Bin Laden evidence.bevonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-17999624927399145532013-01-16T18:32:24.466-08:002013-01-16T18:32:24.466-08:00A more accurate movie about the torture program wo...A more accurate movie about the torture program would have been a grotesque comedy that showed grown men resorting to puppet shows and dance routines and fourth-rate sexual indignities dreamed up after spending too much time reading spank mags and BDSM sites – and doing this thousands of times to thousands of people, all over the world, "accidentally" murdering hundreds of people in the process, going to war by mistake at least once as a result of it, and having no clue half the time who they're interrogating (less than 10 percent of "terror suspects" at places like Bagram were arrested by American forces; most of the rest were brought in by Afghanis or other foreigners in exchange for bounties).<br /><br />Zero Dark Thirty is like a gorgeously-rendered monument to the fatal political miscalculation we made during the Bush years. It's a cliché but it's true: Bin Laden wanted us to make this mistake. He wanted America to respond to him by throwing off our carefully-crafted blanket of global respectability to reveal a brutal, repressive hypocrite underneath. He wanted us to stop pretending that we're the country that handcuffs you and reads you your rights instead of extralegally drone-bombing you from the stratosphere, or putting one in your brain in an Egyptian basement somewhere.<br /><br />The only way we were ever going to win the War on Terror was to win a long, slow, political battle, in which we proved bin Laden wrong, where we allowed people in the Middle East to assess us as a nation and decide we didn't deserve to be mass-murdered. To use another cliché, we needed to win hearts and minds. We had to make lunatics like bin Laden pariahs among their own people, which in turn would make genuine terrorists easier to catch with the aid of genuinely sympathetic local populations.<br /><br />Instead, we turned people like bin Laden into heroes. Just like Marlowe in The Long Goodbye, there were a lot of people in the Middle East who were on the knife-edge about America after 9/11. Yes, we were hated for supporting Israel, but the number of people willing to suicide-bomb us was still a tiny minority.<br /><br />The EIT program changed that. We tortured and humiliated thousands of people across the world. We did it on camera, in pictures that everyone in the Middle East can watch over and over again on the Internet. We became notorious for a vast kidnapping program we called by the harmless-sounding term "rendition," and more lately for an endless campaign of extralegal drone attacks, through which 800 innocent people have died in Afghanistan alone in the last four years.<br /><br />Now we have this movie out that seems to celebrate the use of torture against Arabs, and we're nominating it for Oscars. Bigelow can say that "depiction is not endorsement," but how does she think audiences will receive it in the Middle East? Are they going to sell lots of popcorn in Riyadh and Kabul during the waterboarding scenes?<br /><br />But forget about all of that. The real problem is what this movie says about us. When those Abu Ghraib pictures came out years ago, at least half of America was horrified. The national consensus (albeit by a frighteningly slim margin) was that this wasn't who we, as a people, wanted to be. But now, four years later, Zero Dark Thirty comes out, and it seems that that we've become so blunted to the horror of what we did and/or are doing at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and Bagram and other places that we can accept it, provided we get a boffo movie out of it.<br /><br />That's pathetic. Bin Laden was maybe the most humorless person who ever lived, but he has to be laughing from the afterlife. We make an incredible movie that celebrates his death – a movie so good it'll be seen everywhere in the world – and all it does is prove him right about us.Look who's Stalkingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-39499413957066814952013-01-16T17:37:00.336-08:002013-01-16T17:37:00.336-08:00Ken, as a loyal reader of your blog I was very int...Ken, as a loyal reader of your blog I was very interested in your review of Zero Dark Thirty. And since you practically invited comments on the “torture” issue, here are mine.<br /><br />Were the CIA’s “enhanced interrogation techniques” necessary, effective, legal? In my view, as the former chief spokesman for that secret organization…yes, yes, and yes. I could write a book about it. In fact I did, called "Hard Measures" – with Jose Rodriguez, who led the CIA’s Counterterrorism Center from 2002 to 2004 and the National Clandestine Service until 2007. <br /><br />As several other people have commented, the U.S. government didn’t deny that “waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and other indignities ever happened.” <br /><br />But what did happen to senior Al Qaeda terrorists doesn’t match the interrogation scenes in the movie. <br /><br />Jose (and I) had a piece in the Washington Post January 7 explaining how Bigelow and Boal got some stuff right and some stuff wrong in the movie. Getting any stuff right about the CIA makes a film well worth seeing. <br /><br />The filmmakers got a little carried away (ok, a lot carried away) with their interrogation scenes. The truth about how and why the CIA was so mean to those nice terrorists would make a good movie – but perhaps not as dramatic of one as Zero Dark Thirty.Bill Harlowhttp://www.hardmeasures.usnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-7335848271292310062013-01-16T15:22:27.096-08:002013-01-16T15:22:27.096-08:00You have to take all Hollywood Movies that are &qu...You have to take all Hollywood Movies that are "based on real events" with a large grain of salt. Argo is another prime example. Most the the things depicted in the movie didn't happen. The real crime is what did is more compelling than the contrived movie version of the true story, especially the hooky, cliched ending. Read the book by Tony Mendez, one the TWO CIA operatives involved in the extraction. It's much more satisfying.TLBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-64458318122306804962013-01-16T14:06:39.793-08:002013-01-16T14:06:39.793-08:00Some people don't like the idea that the film ...Some people don't like the idea that the film argues that torture works, and has worked. Some people don't like that the film doesn't give them the clean talking point that Obama got Bin Laden and Bush was evil and wrong, since the torture that got the info happened while Bush was president. Some people don't like that Obama was given too small a role in the film. Too much Hillary-influence?<br /><br />On a second point, has Claire Danes gotten a larger role recently? She appears to be an analyst who does some interrogations.Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-41053837321331166702013-01-16T13:42:28.598-08:002013-01-16T13:42:28.598-08:00This movie takes place in Dick-Cheney-Fantasyland....This movie takes place in Dick-Cheney-Fantasyland. We already know what took place in these black sites because we've seen pictures: the torturers of Abu Ghraib were, don't forget, operating under CIA instruction and oversight, and we all know what that looked like. <br /><br />Read the definitive account of what actually happened, "The Dark Side" by Jane Mayer. The actual criminal officers, unlike the ones portrayed in this movie, tortured for the only reason that anybody ever tortures: because they were sadists who wanted to have a little fun. That's why they failed to find Bin Laden year after year.<br /><br />If you want to know how the later, successful non-torturers eventually got the real, usable intelligence, just watch any episode of Homicide: you convince the other person that it's in their best interest to tell you the truth. That's the only thing that ever has worked or will work. <br /><br />This movie is utterly vile. It's very visceral and I can understand how it sucks in people who don't know the true story, but that makes it all the more reprehensible.Matt Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07319984238456281734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-76024035339341379352013-01-16T12:42:00.124-08:002013-01-16T12:42:00.124-08:00Irony Dept. :
Remember when this movie was first ...Irony Dept. :<br /><br />Remember when this movie was first announced a couple of years back?<br /><br />All the right-wing sites (the Breitbart family in particular) were beside themselves over the possibility that <i>Zero Dark Thirty</i> would be released right before the Presidential election, and make their #1 hate figure, President Obama, unbeatable?<br /><br />They were unalterably convinced of this, and denounced Bigelow up, down, and all around for even thinking of making this picture.<br />The Breitbarties bought into every rumor that they came across (or made up) that the Government and Defense Dept. were helping to make the Osama raid into an Obama infomercial.<br /><br />So now it's after the election, and Obama won without the movie even coming out.<br />And <i>ZDT</i> is finally released, and who do you think its biggest fans are?<br /><i>The Breitbarties!</i><br />And why are they its biggest fans?<br />Because they believe that <i>ZDT</i> is an endorsement - even a vindication - of torture!<br />Which (here comes the ultimate irony) is <i>exactly</i> what the far-lefties who are complaining about it are saying!<br /><br />So three cheers for Kathryn Bigelow, who has truly accomplished the impossible - <br /> - getting the wingnuts, left and right, to agree on something!<br /><br />Now if she (or anybody) could figure out a way to get those idiots to leave the rest of us the hell alone ...<br /><br />Mike Dorannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-79373720174967823242013-01-16T11:21:07.460-08:002013-01-16T11:21:07.460-08:00I was somewhat tortured by the film's non-ment...I was somewhat tortured by the film's non-mention (or maybe I blinked) of the year-long (as some have reported), intense rehearsal of the siege by the Seal Team. Yeah, the torture thing, I get it, but to me, that degree of preparation is an interesting part of the story. <br /><br />It may have been the martinis, but all I seem to remember is a two-minute scene where a cute tootsie shows up at camp to tell a few bearded guys tossing a football to start their engines. What? <br /><br />The final compound scene was, without doubt, riveting. But gee whiz, the real thing could never have been accomplished so successfully without the focussed dedication by superhumans to the rehearsal and preparation.<br /><br />But I liked the movie.Jeff Maxwellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-28382568008516632982013-01-16T11:18:26.041-08:002013-01-16T11:18:26.041-08:00I was somewhat tortured by the film's non-ment...I was somewhat tortured by the film's non-mention (or maybe I blinked) of the year-long (as some have reported), intense rehearsal of the siege by the Seal Team. Yeah, the torture thing, I get it, but to me, that degree of preparation is an interesting part of the story. <br /><br />It may have been the martinis, but all I seem to remember is a two-minute scene where a cute tootsie shows up at camp to tell a few bearded guys tossing a football to start their engines. What? <br /><br />The final compound scene was, without doubt, riveting. But gee whiz, the real thing could never have been accomplished so successfully without the focussed dedication by superhumans to the rehearsal and preparation.<br /><br />But I liked the movie.Jeff Maxwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01708037522976667642noreply@blogger.com