tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post2198723187676218700..comments2023-11-03T06:02:02.128-07:00Comments on By Ken Levine: What you can and can't say on televisionBy Ken Levinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17305293821975250420noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-8230595720041616002018-07-23T23:00:26.435-07:002018-07-23T23:00:26.435-07:00Ive seen every MASH episose dozens of times, they ...Ive seen every MASH episose dozens of times, they only used the word ass as in "foolish". Never referring to the body part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-44087723678584344592012-05-22T21:12:26.354-07:002012-05-22T21:12:26.354-07:00What makes “All In The Family” important is that i...What makes “All In The Family” important is that it exposed what people really said and professed to have thought. The reality was that many, many people thought that the races should be separated and were unequal. As teenagers in the 1970s, we glommed onto the counter-culture, as it was known then, and could be self-unctuous: Who me? Never! However it was hard to remain unsullied where in the family, in the street, everywhere; people espoused to greater or lesser degrees those views expressed through the character of Archie Bunker. It took guts to turn the camera around and instead of the television broadcasting into the living room; our living room--America’s real living rooms--was being broadcast onto the t.v. set. Now forty years later, we snicker like junior high students when someone mentions a private part on television. We must have reached a point where we live in such social harmony that there is no need for a show like “All In The Family” to reflect that we are anything less than perfect.Daryl S. Herrick https://www.blogger.com/profile/07458391743294006005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-16883687176979232232012-05-21T11:50:12.872-07:002012-05-21T11:50:12.872-07:00I think I prefer 70s values over today's. It&...I think I prefer 70s values over today's. It's one thing to be politically incorrect to make a point, quite another to do it just for shock value to hide the fact that you aren't really funny.McAlvienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-24213153313355210062012-05-21T07:47:47.142-07:002012-05-21T07:47:47.142-07:00I just found out last night that you can call some...I just found out last night that you can call someone a "dick" on TV, as witnessed on Celebrity Apprentice.Mike Barerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14447874605833321732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-60516780376639965452012-05-19T16:08:23.415-07:002012-05-19T16:08:23.415-07:00Thank goodness I have satellite! Japanese sitcom w...Thank goodness I have satellite! Japanese sitcom writers are far more progressive than Americans when using the N word.<br /><br />If you doubt me, check out this hilarious clip:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-19ioGniZ88Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-67866841397218776302012-05-18T23:48:27.070-07:002012-05-18T23:48:27.070-07:00I would have to agree that the comparison isn'...I would have to agree that the comparison isn't fair. <br />Surely there is intelligent comedy on TV today, but how many scenes in sitcom history would stand up against that one from All In the Family? <br />3? 5?<br />I don't know if a 20 min sitcom would ever use 9 minutes to set up that pay off today. <br />But if someone told me that they had written seasons of All in the Family and developed the Archie Bunker character just to get to that kiss, I would be of the opinion that it was worthwhile.ARon23https://www.blogger.com/profile/18026304465917614552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-90332671057893991112012-05-18T20:33:57.303-07:002012-05-18T20:33:57.303-07:00Actually, both shows have are similar in the fact ...Actually, both shows have are similar in the fact that they derived humor from shock value. <br />It's the only similarity, though. One is a show that is remembered 40 years later, the other may have already been forgotten.<br />It was a much different world back then, no VCRs,no "On Demand", no desktop computers. Very little in the way of cable options. You had a time of the evening that you would watch a show, if you missed it, you had to wait for the reruns. It was not uncommon back then for the whole family to gather in the living room to watch a certain show.Mike Barerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14447874605833321732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-32386497958950078022012-05-18T18:32:29.671-07:002012-05-18T18:32:29.671-07:00Johnny:
It certainly happened here in the states ...Johnny:<br /><br />It certainly happened here in the states that Archie Bunker was misread by certain audience members. My father was among that number. He never saw that the series was poking fun at Archie's ignorant, racist attitudes. To him, ALL IN THE FAMILY was more the story of a sane man struggling against a world turned upside-down, trying to tell him that everything that he *knew* was right, was wrong.<br /><br />If you read print reviews and discussions of ALL IN THE FAMILY from very early in its run, you'll find that the absence of the word "nigger" from Archie's vocabulary was frequently discussed, some feeling that it was a failure on the show's part not to use the word and others arguing that it would have been too inflammatory and would have worked against what the series was trying to do. Norman Lear's response to the question at that point was that he felt the word "nigger" was used only by people who genuinely hated blacks, whereas Archie's brand of racism, Lear argued, was rooted in ignorance. Not hatred.Andrewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-85840424908925737552012-05-18T17:33:30.361-07:002012-05-18T17:33:30.361-07:00I was in high school and never missed an All In Th...I was in high school and never missed an All In The Family - every season. Teenagers or people in their early 20s didn't have TV shows especially written just for their specific age demographic the way it's all done nowadays. Shows were shows...they seemed to appeal to a wide variety of ages...I found nothing uncool about watching All In The Family or Maude at 17-20. I was well aware of the social commentary about the times used in the shows - that's exactly why I tuned in and watched...and besides being entertained, I was also, on some level, educated about the political system back in the early-mid '70s, through the eyes of both Archie and Mike. Today none of this is no longer done on sitcoms. Whoppeee! Vagina jokes abound! (If you can even call them jokes), oh, how fun-nee, tee-hee. That's sad. That's very sad that after all of the brilliance of MASH, ALL IN THE FAMILY, MAUDE - the rich comedic writing...that all a dumb 20 year old wants to watch is a dumb show where the main characters get to say vagina. <br /><br />Didn't get to hear the word enough in your Human Sexuality class back in high school, huh?Jeffrey Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-81719674997727657442012-05-18T16:14:36.410-07:002012-05-18T16:14:36.410-07:00The most important criteria is that it be relevant...The most important criteria is that it be relevant to the scene and funny (assuming we're talking comedy). For myself, I'm pretty libertarian as far as language goes and say let them both go as long as there is a purpose. If it's just to be shocking or vulgar, then there isn't a point and we don't need it. However, we shouldn't be puritannical about either subject either. Just make sure to place them in the proper hour. What drives me nuts is that the people who complain either A) want to decide my morals for me or B) are too distracted by their own lives to monitor their own children. I sensed that same attitude during that horrible HBO Weight of the Nation obesity epidemic scarefest that passed off everything it said as a "fact" neglecting to tell anyone that the statistics came from surveys whose own guidelines had sampling errors and admitted their samples were too small to read too much into without combining them with previous surveys -- none of which were done or mentioned in the show. They even ignored more recent surveys that showed leveling off of weight increases in adult women and children in recent years so they could use the older, scarier ones. Pretty despicable.Edward Copelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12463676135131274426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-37251600274662655862012-05-18T14:23:14.845-07:002012-05-18T14:23:14.845-07:00Johnny Walker...
Thanks for the link. "It co...Johnny Walker...<br /><br />Thanks for the link. "It couldn't have been Christmas! He hadn't bloody well been born yet!" lol. I'd probably find it even funnier if Alf didn't remind me so much of my uncle.<br /><br />Brian Phillips said...<br /><br />"So, if any of you are over to my house, would you care to listen to Archie and Edith sing "When I'm 64"? Anyone? Where are you going? I made espresso!"<br /><br />You'll have to do better than that. Fine wine, a four-course gourmet meal, an exotic dessert (with flames), espresso, AND cognac. Then maybe I'll listen to your record.RCPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251247613686669877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-42264356444696137752012-05-18T10:35:31.377-07:002012-05-18T10:35:31.377-07:00Some years I realized you couldn't do a charac...Some years I realized you couldn't do a character like Reverand Jim from Taxi. Or the SNL skit about union grown pot. For a long time the Just Say Now mentality meant drugs could only be presented in a negative light. The difference is exemplified by the casual drug use in David Gerrold's When HARLIE was One (1973) versus Version 2.0 (1988) where that was excised.<br /><br />From what I can tell Weeds doesn't demonize drug growing, so maybe thing have softened a bit these past few years.Dana Gabbardhttp://socata.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-55438790132465318672012-05-18T09:01:00.987-07:002012-05-18T09:01:00.987-07:00Interesting, as well as funny, clip from TIL DEATH...Interesting, as well as funny, clip from TIL DEATH DO US PART. Even in ALL IN THE FAMILY's heyday, I can't imagine Mike Stivic calling Jesus a Marxist. But British sitcoms were always a little edgier than American ones.Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02155991693956178030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-42169943844225361502012-05-18T08:17:28.672-07:002012-05-18T08:17:28.672-07:00I would have LOVED to been in that room for the sc...I would have LOVED to been in that room for the screen of "Sammy's Visit". <br /><br />I have the second season DVD of "All in the Family". I showed it to a friend of mine, a comedian with dark, twisted humor. He was SHOCKED. SHOCKED. 40+ years later. <br /><br />I've watched the episode a million times. It's hilarious, it's brilliant, it's classic and ends with one of the greatest comedic moments in TV history. <br /><br />I wish I could write shit like that.Terrence Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09365112876091271689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-16081752304612742952012-05-18T05:09:57.363-07:002012-05-18T05:09:57.363-07:00To Johnny Walker: Thanks for the link!
I'm ra...To Johnny Walker: Thanks for the link!<br /><br />I'm rather surprised to see the physical resemblance of Jean Stapleton to Dandy Nichols.<br /><br />To answer your question, I do recall seeing, "Archie Bunker for President" buttons as a little boy.<br /><br />The strangest tie-in to "All in the Family" would have to be the records. Some of them were audio recordings of clips of the episodes (this was before the days of VCR's), but some featured Carroll O'Connor and Jean Stapleton singing in character. One featured O'Connor and the title was "Music for Old P.F.A.R.T.S*" <br /><br />So, if any of you are over to my house, would you care to listen to Archie and Edith sing "When I'm 64"? Anyone? Where are you going? I made espresso!<br /><br />To Ralph: Yes you can have people smoking on TV, even without a huge disclaimer. To be fair, it's usually shown in a negative light, from what I've seen. On "Friends" Chandler's love of tobacco is almost erotic. On "Becker", Dr. Becker smoked, but usually it was shown as a punchline, or decried by other characters. On "Cheers", I seem to recall some of the regular cast smoking cigars in one episode.<br /><br />I will concede that TV is pretty much anti-smoking. The ads have been banned since the '70s which I don't have an issue with. In a Vance Packard book, he recalls hearing his daughter singing an ad jingle, "Don't miss the fun of smoking..." Considering what tobacco did to my parents' health, were that my daughter, I would've pitched a fit.<br /><br />*People for a return to sentimentality.Brian Phillipshttp://ultrasonicremote.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-83668205974191889812012-05-18T04:04:37.426-07:002012-05-18T04:04:37.426-07:00Jim, I totally agree with your sentiment, but I do...Jim, I totally agree with your sentiment, but I don't think that was what Ken was saying. The humour in ALL IN THE FAMILY (and, originally, TIL DEATH DO US PART) was supposed to be making fun of racist attitudes. The sentiment behind those shows was a good one; The audience was never supposed to be laughing <i>with</i> Archie Bunker/Alf Garnett, but <i>at</i> him.<br /><br />I don't know about the US remake, but here in the UK this intention was lost on some members of the audience: A lot racists loved Alf Garnett, without realising the aim was to mock him.<br /><br />Here's a sample for those who are interested in seeing where Archie Bunker originated:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWKy4RHf5tQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWKy4RHf5tQ</a>Johnny Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13302545167970532080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-69743943478289341362012-05-18T01:35:01.376-07:002012-05-18T01:35:01.376-07:00I guess Ken's point can be summed up thusly: I...I guess Ken's point can be summed up thusly: If you're going to use shocking l language on TV, at least try and put something of value behind it.Johnny Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13302545167970532080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-66846146748263404392012-05-18T01:21:29.394-07:002012-05-18T01:21:29.394-07:00A superb Season 2 episode of LOUIE had Louie takin...A superb Season 2 episode of LOUIE had Louie taking his daughters to visit his ancient aunt in hopes that they'd enjoy hearing about her life and benefit from her wisdom. That was shot to hell when the old lady offered them a snack of Brazil nuts or, as she called them, "niggertoes." She went on to express disgust that Louie and the girls lived in New York City, because it's home to so many--well, you get the idea.<br /><br />Granted, LOUIE is on FX, and probably couldn't get away with such content on one of the major networks.jbryantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-25164030453335765702012-05-18T01:20:15.486-07:002012-05-18T01:20:15.486-07:00I think the writing approach is different. In the ...I think the writing approach is different. In the "All In The Family" skit, the issue is racism, and the N--- word worked its way in there. I think for the TBG skit, the writer(s) started with the word vagina, and brainstormed for vagina jokes...and in this comment I am proud to say I was able to use the word vagina 2...no, 3 times.Austin in Tokyonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-50537078226343987392012-05-17T23:05:02.886-07:002012-05-17T23:05:02.886-07:00Social value?
Just as an example, would anyone h...Social value? <br /><br />Just as an example, would anyone have taken Martin Luther King, Jr. seriously if during his, "I have a dream" speech he took a break to tell us about a new mouthwash, or body spray that will get you laid, or a new pill you should talk to your doctor about? <br /><br />TV should always stick to what it does best: entertainingFranconoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-90807650926323229222012-05-17T21:34:46.990-07:002012-05-17T21:34:46.990-07:00There really is no fair comparison between All in ...There really is no fair comparison between All in the Family and Two Broke Girls (and I like TBG). In one you have several minutes of important dialogue for the time (or this time for that matter) and in the other, less than a minute of frivolous banter. This is not a sign of the times, just a poor comparison of two shows that are alike in no way at all. (I really do love your blog, just happen to disagree sometimes)JenWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-86381263953521531472012-05-17T21:20:41.985-07:002012-05-17T21:20:41.985-07:00Ken,
I will be pitching my sitcom "pilot&quo...Ken,<br /><br />I will be pitching my sitcom "pilot" in a few weeks at this years' Pitchfest, and was wondering if I should exclude some "underscores" I have included in certain bits of dialog? <br /><br />That said, I just finished reading the FRASIER "PILOT" EPISODE which I found online, and there seems to be no underscoring whatsoever.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />ErikWriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07899781097191763360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-4917478327072523692012-05-17T21:17:59.320-07:002012-05-17T21:17:59.320-07:00After nearly 40 years, I never forgot his line abo...After nearly 40 years, I never forgot his line about toasting marshmallows on a burning cross.Mike Barerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14447874605833321732noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-72119555392355551552012-05-17T20:24:01.877-07:002012-05-17T20:24:01.877-07:00This post was not meant to compare the two series,...This post was not meant to compare the two series, just the use of words each show could use that the other couldn't. <br /><br />Did I stack the deck? I suppose. But my point in using that clip of 2BG is that it used the vagina numerous times and none of them were particularly funny or even clever. The thought must have been just say the word and it will get a laugh, and if so, just keep saying it. <br /><br />I do believe that ALL IN THE FAMILY, at least, strove for more.By Ken Levinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17305293821975250420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-45762368118267084242012-05-17T18:59:53.426-07:002012-05-17T18:59:53.426-07:00I'm curious as to how many complaints CBS got ...I'm curious as to how many complaints CBS got on this episode and how many of them were about the uttering of 'nigger?'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com