tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post2961091014357848970..comments2023-11-03T06:02:02.128-07:00Comments on By Ken Levine: Shame on you, Stephen ColbertBy Ken Levinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17305293821975250420noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-28348972845805073212016-07-03T11:52:27.269-07:002016-07-03T11:52:27.269-07:00I've got to ask Ken... Have you ever submitted...I've got to ask Ken... Have you ever submitted a late night packet? <br /><br />It's a different skillset than a sitcom writer. You've got to create material on the fly and hit the ground running and that's what this packet is about. You're not going to find someone who can crank out dozens of jokes per day by asking for (as you put it) "a few jokes, maybe one sketch, a sample of sketches you wrote on spec for SNL or THE DAILY SHOW. Not thirteen specific bits." You've got to be able to see if candidates can provide material on a quick and timely basis, especially when you're looking for writers who aren't necessarily established. <br /><br />On that note, why are you attacking a process when that's very clearly an attempt by the show to bring in writers who aren't through the usual writing packets? Don't insult someone who's trying to make writing jobs more accessible to diverse and outside writers. Unless you don't think that's a problem at all?LateShowApplicantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-62087994869712609022016-07-01T10:10:14.649-07:002016-07-01T10:10:14.649-07:00No, shame on you, Ken Levine. You must be hard-up ...No, shame on you, Ken Levine. You must be hard-up for page views to display such willful ignorance. MASH tales not earning the clicks anymore? <br /><br />As a longtime reader, I can honestly say I’ve never seen you this grossly off-base about anything. Where do I start?<br /><br />First: writers had six days to submit their packet. The guidelines didn’t just go out the minute you read about it. If someone can’t write a few simple bits in a work week + a day, they shouldn’t be a staff writer on a daily show.<br /><br />Second: there is nothing new about the ask. Of what you characterize as 13 full bits, 8 of them are just jokes. Setup/punchline. Simple. Your puffed-up version of the packet is in reality far less intense than the requirement during the Colbert Report days (for years, they asked for a complete Word as part of it). And if you want to talk brutal: for years, the Daily Show required that a finalist’s second packet a) consist of the same stories the show did that week, Mon-Thurs b) be delivered that Friday. So you effectively had less than a day to write your second packet. <br /><br />How many people ever went to the media and bitched about those? None, because it’s required, and every idiot in the game knows it. How else does the show know you can write in the host’s voice - and do it quickly?<br /><br />With all the late night talk shows on the air, all of which need to hire someone new at minimum once a year, how many times has anyone ever accused one of those shows of lifting material from a packet? But this is going to suddenly start happening now, simply because… you have a hunch? There’s no way you truly believe that, Ken. <br /><br />The only unprecedented aspect of this process was that it was made so open, by CBS’s choice. The job posting was public, and the majority of the people who submitted resumes received the packet instructions.<br /><br />Licht and CBS should be commended for opening the gates to all, even to those with few or no produced credits. Of the people I personally know who were invited to submit, HALF are unrepped. <br /><br />Has that ever happened with a network show before? Would those people have otherwise had the chance to submit? No and no. <br /><br />Is it ever going to happen again? When they’re subjected to accusations like this, and the Deadline article you regurgitated them from, absolutely not. <br /><br />This was a huge opportunity for anyone other than friends-of-friends to submit, so the whole slate of candidates wouldn’t be a white twentysomething sausage party. You know this, Ken. Never write a word about diversity in writing rooms from this point forward, because now we know how you really want this process to run. <br /><br />You spout off about “ramifications,” but fail to look in the mirror. This could’ve been a game-changer if other shows adopted the process, giving talented people of all levels, all geographies, a shot at being hired onto a network writing staff, joining the WGA, and having a great career. Instead, you’re teaching other showrunners to never try this. Keep it in the family, or else.<br /><br />Now, let’s just all sit back and watch as the show uses all this “free” topical material generated by others. I can’t wait to hear Stephen’s hot takes on June news now through September. We all know that after being a WGA writer for 20 years, he’s going to choose this specific moment to start breaking the rules and being an unscrupulous dick. <br /><br />I’ve lost a lot of respect for you today, Ken, but I hope you and your extra traffic are very happy together. <br /><br />Sharilynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12563868501831788774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-12268345880329214252016-06-30T19:44:28.714-07:002016-06-30T19:44:28.714-07:00Pretty shady and widespread in most creative indus...Pretty shady and widespread in most creative industries. And Stephen Colbert isn't all that funny. Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-69568568075579649782016-06-30T19:42:51.867-07:002016-06-30T19:42:51.867-07:00Interesting conversation. All I can think to add i...Interesting conversation. All I can think to add is that the cold open sketch on Colbert is typically a very short, setup and joke, something around 20-30 seconds, with some exceptions that went as long as almost a minute. I'd hesitate to characterize any of them as a "full sketch."Geoff with a Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-12804752972628080272016-06-30T08:03:34.461-07:002016-06-30T08:03:34.461-07:00I once submitted jokes to Phyllis Diller. She boug...I once submitted jokes to Phyllis Diller. She bought 2 or 3 at like $2 each, sent me a check I wish I never cashed but kept, and offered commentary on why she rejected the others. I think that was classy. Milton the Momzernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-58514811280223566052016-06-30T05:10:28.330-07:002016-06-30T05:10:28.330-07:00Jeff: Same thing at the beginning of the web. In 1...Jeff: Same thing at the beginning of the web. In 1995, one of my friends was doing some temporary stuff setting up a university news web server. He learned on the job, by reading books, by reading technical documentation, etc. The department he was working for then advertising his job for a full-time. Among the requirements: "Five years of experience." Who had five years of experience developing websites in 1995? <br /><br />wgWendy M. Grossmanhttp://www.pelicancrossing.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-28178325317036583532016-06-29T21:11:14.756-07:002016-06-29T21:11:14.756-07:00The egregious amount of material required of audit...The egregious amount of material required of auditioning writers *reeks* of desperation. Which isn't all that surprising, because so does Stephen's show. <br /><br />Now, I loved The Colbert Report. Never missed it.<br /><br />But I stopped watching Colbert's Late Show regularly after about a week or two. Since then, I'll occasionally check in, maybe once a month ... but since I started doing that, I haven't lasted more than five minutes with any given episode.<br /><br />It's not quite a trainwreck, mind you, it's just dull. And forced. I can't imagine the young demo embracing it, and the older demo probably -- and quite sensibly -- goes to bed after the monologue falls flat yet again.<br /><br />Oh, and the band is simply annoying. And the band<i>leader</i> is a faux-hip comedic vacuum where humour goes to die -- in comparison, Branford Marsalis had the comic chops of Chris Rock.<br /><br />But hey ... that gets me thinking. You know who'd be *perfect* at appealing to at least CBS's core demographic of people between the ages of 65 and dead? Branford's old boss. <br /><br />And Mr. Leno's free right now, I think...Breadalbanenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-7815893254761853862016-06-29T20:14:28.564-07:002016-06-29T20:14:28.564-07:00I once submitted a couple pages of jokes to a come...I once submitted a couple pages of jokes to a comedian whose name everyone reading this would recognize. Frankly, I thought then and think now that he was second-rate, but he was very famous. Trust me, you'd all know his name. So I wrote a few pages of samples, and, as per usual, stuck what I thought were my weakest jokes at the bottom of the last page. He didn't like any of what I thought were the good ones, but praised the "Gems" I'd buried at the back. "Those are great jokes. You should lead with them." I was invited to attend his weekly writers room joke pitch session in his home to "Audition." (He had a radio show at the time on a station you could pull in in about half the country, and he was on network TV often.) I participated, and five or six of the jokes I pitched went into the show. When I inquired if I was to be paid for the jokes I'd "Auditioned" that he was going to use, he went ballistic. I was "Auditioning" and would not be paid. He was <i><b>furious</b></i> at the mere mention, at my gall that he should pay to use the jokes I'd "Auditioned," though use them he did. (I hadn't demanded money, merely inquired.) Anyway, we never spoke again. He's still alive. (This was exactly 40 years ago.)D. McEwannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-78980156302403988102016-06-29T15:16:04.213-07:002016-06-29T15:16:04.213-07:00@Oscar Solis
Thanks for the link to three minutes...@Oscar Solis<br /><br />Thanks for the link to three minutes of Ellison - what an excellent, on-the-money rant. <br /><br />I've heard of so-called "interns" get abused - not only for chicken feed wages but sometimes for no pay.<br /><br />Hell NO!Jahn Ghaltnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-69419668949651209802016-06-29T09:26:50.523-07:002016-06-29T09:26:50.523-07:00With any relationship, there will always be an iss...With any relationship, there will always be an issue of trust...Most young writers are too trusting to give away their talents....I find it sad that those in the "arts" professions are told they have to give away their talents to gain that all important "exposure"....it happens in music as well as in writing...<br />I do have a slight fear that some comment I make on my blog will be stolen and used without attribution but no one reads my blog so I have no worries...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-24634712528433765682016-06-29T00:48:06.330-07:002016-06-29T00:48:06.330-07:00I submitted a packet. But I wrote everything as i...I submitted a packet. But I wrote everything as if it was being performed by James Corden. Because it's only a matter of time.<br /><br />The previous packet I submitted for a shot at fame and fortune required a lot less work: 2 silly ideas, a bunch of stupid nicknames, and the ability to bullshit people.<br /><br />I didn't get the gig, but I understand why. That Trump guy REALLY nailed it!Phil In Phoenixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-1466414803877527522016-06-29T00:40:50.032-07:002016-06-29T00:40:50.032-07:00This practice started with Jimmy Kimmel over 15 ye...This practice started with Jimmy Kimmel over 15 years ago. The WGA stepped in at that time. Everyone who wrote a submission on spec under their guidelines was paid 600 bucks each. Then, those fees just went away. I have friends who run talk and variety shows and when they look for writers, they get at least 400 submission packets (seriously). Here's what I think writers need to do. -- Don't do the packet. Not out of protest. Don't do it because they're reading tons and tons of the same jokes and bits. Write what you think is funny and in your voice, and it'll stand out. It'll also tell your boss your true sensibility, this means they know your strength and they'll continually go to you for those type of jokes. You could become more of an asset this way.Mike Rowenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-85395183346424469172016-06-28T21:07:42.624-07:002016-06-28T21:07:42.624-07:00Ken, I love your blog and respect your opinion, bu...Ken, I love your blog and respect your opinion, but I think you're wrong of accusing The Late Show of doing this to steal material from applicants. <br /><br />Because if they did, they completely screwed it up. <br /><br />The Late Show is a topical show. Almost everything in that packet is never going to be useful again. If you go through the packet, the Cold Opens, Topical Story, Monologue Jokes and guest segment were already old by the submission deadline. Heck, they even ask for writers to only write guest segment pitches for guests that have already done the show in June. <br /><br />The only things that were evergreens were the one general segment pitch and the three confessions. And if they were mining those for ideas, they would've had writers send in tons more. For examples, I've submitted packets for Late Night shows that asked for 10 or more segment pitches. <br /><br />And honestly, this is the easiest Late Night packet I've ever had to assemble. Most places require much more of each piece than this one. <br />LateShowApplicantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-1657884128321013392016-06-28T18:54:41.552-07:002016-06-28T18:54:41.552-07:00Previous posters have mentioned that they were &qu...Previous posters have mentioned that they were "asked to submit." That implies someone of hiring authority is going to review the material and devote at least an hour or of so of their time to determining if the applicant is worthy of further consideration. As Mark Evanier said on his site, it's highly unlikely that Colbert or frankly anyone with regular access to him (i.e. not an intern) is going to look at it.<br /><br />What's fair and reasonable at the entry-level stage is to ask for a portfolio of work. In journalism, for example, you would submit a few of your best clips. You weren't asked to research and write a front-page article on spec. <br /><br />I also agree with Evanier that the more specific and time-intensive submission is reasonable when you've advanced to a finite pool of about a dozen or so people. I liken it to the third interview.<br /><br />But I greatly resent the trend in all areas of business to demand that people looking for work do a great deal of work for free as part of the initial application process. A friend was once asked to prepare a Powerpoint deck for a client presentation. She could spend an evening laboring over something an intern will glance at once.<br /><br />It's a shame because in my experience, the people trying to hire talent are usually too busy to deal with basically reading the equivalent of WAR AND PEACE. If you cut down on the tap dancing required of applicants, you could ensure that someone actually reviewed all the submissions rather than settling on the first few that don't suck.Stephen Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670422634319094941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-35773539629615980542016-06-28T18:45:24.883-07:002016-06-28T18:45:24.883-07:00I will disagree (and agree with Velcro!). Let'... I will disagree (and agree with Velcro!). Let's just say that you are an undiscovered brilliant comedy talent, and your specialty just happens to be late-night. This is an opportunity to get hired by the CBS late-night show! And there's more: what if you're picked for the staff, and then you become the writer who is responsible for the show's dramatic turnaround in the ratings! Ok long shot, but worth the effort? (and you've got all those jokes and sketches already written anyway, so what's the harm?)Tednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-7773640659540667162016-06-28T17:30:41.272-07:002016-06-28T17:30:41.272-07:00DBA
I understand the point and in a perfect world,...DBA<br />I understand the point and in a perfect world, packet requests like this wouldn't be necessary. I understand their point of view, if they just opened it up as you suggest they would get an impossible to weed through number of responses. They need some way to whittle down to the serious and interested applicants. If the implication is that they are using this as a way to generate material for their show, I doubt that is the case.<br />Look how many people got their start writing for television through Star Trek:TNG, a show that similarly courted outsider material. <br />The only other options for outsider writers are diversity programs and contests. In the diversity applications you usually get a handful picked from among thousands. This year so far I have written three specs and an original pilot for diversity applications, had I seen this opportunity I would have gladly taken a week to write material towards it. <br />Velcro Fathomshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10507217139238114534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-64159509497469605712016-06-28T16:38:41.042-07:002016-06-28T16:38:41.042-07:00I know that this isn't really a commentary on ...I know that this isn't really a commentary on the show, but I will anyway. Colbert's Late Show can't seem to figure out what it wants to be. I tried watching it early on and then stopped back a few times. He doesn't seem all that comfortable doing this format of show. The theater, the set, the show...all seem like a suit that's too big for him. <br /><br />Maybe they ought to just hire and pay some great writers and get a show runner who's done late night.<br /><br />I dunno.JR Smithhttp://www.fogdog-photography.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-67717089193055677692016-06-28T15:31:36.176-07:002016-06-28T15:31:36.176-07:00I honestly wish I could say this surprises me, yet...I honestly wish I could say this surprises me, yet it doesn't. I so like Colbert when he's good, he's smart, funny and savvy. However, far too often, he's been bad. Boring guests, the same lame chat every other show rolls out and bits that stopped being funny a decade ago. If he isn't doing re-tread Letterman, he's doing openings that waste a minute of my life I will never get back. Why not do something that will break the mold? He has the talent. My best hope is perhaps someone will submit something that hasn't been done before, or at the very least, in quite some time.BrettJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00399759208677794664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-60571275915562454382016-06-28T15:00:40.087-07:002016-06-28T15:00:40.087-07:00Harlan Ellison says it all:
https://www.youtube.c...Harlan Ellison says it all:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fEOscar Solishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05266668061798353541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-16140893210042725082016-06-28T14:59:21.178-07:002016-06-28T14:59:21.178-07:00This, sadly, is not different from the common prac...This, sadly, is not different from the common practice of using unpaid interns in all sorts of business, not just show. Milton the Momzernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-3275733887926310112016-06-28T14:44:57.976-07:002016-06-28T14:44:57.976-07:00I spent 20 years writing in late night and I share...I spent 20 years writing in late night and I share your outrage about this. But why assume this is to net young writers? The show also could be trying to appeal to old pros who are desperate to work again, which makes it even worse. The Writers Guild looks the other way every single time. This is why we have to vote in people to the Board who will amend these horrendous practices.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-19534350711081697692016-06-28T14:23:16.440-07:002016-06-28T14:23:16.440-07:00Velcro Fathoms, I think your disagreement misses t...Velcro Fathoms, I think your disagreement misses the point. Ken wasn't objecting to their opening up the hiring to anyone. His objection is to the <i>amount of sample material</i> the show is requesting be written specifically for it in order to apply. It'd be one thing if they asked for samples of the types of things they've specified in the packet, but to specifically request all of them is, as Ken noted, maybe a week's worth of work done for free just to apply. There's nothing in the process that allows for samples of similar work that could theoretically illustrate the ability to do what this show wants. There's no portfolio. This is more similar to if every sitcom asked applicants to write a spec of <i>their show</i> and would only accept that. So you'e writing a specific show for free every time you want to apply. It's like if a chef applied at a restaurant and instead of cooking a dish or two for the owner while applying, they had to run the dinner service for a night for free. That's not the best analogy...but it's closer to what I mean.DBAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-20868696176026034542016-06-28T13:04:47.527-07:002016-06-28T13:04:47.527-07:00Actually, this sort of thing was common practice a...Actually, this sort of thing was common practice a couple of decades ago for non-entertainment writing. I'm a professional writer, but write non-fiction materials for corporations (articles, brochures, etc.) I was invited once to take a 'test' for a staff position at a publishing company. 30 or so writers sat in a room, were handed a bundle of articles and research on a topic, and basically created a chapter for a textbook. After the 'test' I talked to some of the other applicants, and discovered each of us had been assigned a different chapter (some highly suspicious sorts wouldn't share with the rest of us -- their loss). So the company basically got a free textbook out of the deal. I didn't get the position, and I actually doubt one ever existed. <br /><br />I told the story to a friend later, and he said he'd been through the same thing with computer code. A number of people were assigned chunks of code as a 'test,' but he found out they were all working on different sections. Again, the company got a ton of free code out of this.<br /><br />I don't take 'tests' any more. I'll give you samples, even by-lined samples, but I don't take 'tests.' I'll just walk away. You want me to write for you, you pay me. Bryan Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-2342051984128364442016-06-28T13:01:24.779-07:002016-06-28T13:01:24.779-07:00Agree with you 100% Ken. Highly self-indulgent of ...Agree with you 100% Ken. Highly self-indulgent of them. And I'm starting to get the impression, though job postings I've seen, that other employers are doing similar. Soon, you'll have come in at Noon, handle a lunch rush, invent 2 new burgers and pitch a new shake flavor to be a fry cook at Wendy's. ADminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14130140152157232044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-90985349451850852802016-06-28T11:55:28.413-07:002016-06-28T11:55:28.413-07:00Friday Question: the WGA has a service where you c...Friday Question: the WGA has a service where you can register scripts, treatments, outlines, etc. before you submit them. While they say up front that this isn't absolute protection, there is an implied benefit and basically a date-stamp proof for your product. This is also a service that you have once or twice referred to using. My questions are: what are the actual benefits and protections that you get? And, in this Colbert submission situation in particular, does this give a writer a practical and effective recourse if the show did not hire the writer but later used the writer's bits?Tom Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15032570336725768454noreply@blogger.com