tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post2784479724702248215..comments2023-11-03T06:02:02.128-07:00Comments on By Ken Levine: Symbolism in MASH: Now it can be toldBy Ken Levinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17305293821975250420noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-42155131354856143582013-11-08T20:27:30.827-08:002013-11-08T20:27:30.827-08:00Glad to know there was no symbolism in MASH - ther...Glad to know there was no symbolism in MASH - there are alot of liberal types who see it as a protest against the troops in Vietnam! <br /><br />It's just entertainment and nothing more, Obamabots. <br /><br />And that's right from the horses' mouth!Iron Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-40841811563771764232013-11-05T13:38:54.426-08:002013-11-05T13:38:54.426-08:00Ha! I've enjoyed reading these comments just ...Ha! I've enjoyed reading these comments just as much as I did reading Ken's post. You guys are great. <br /><br />I love books, and once thought about taking a course about how to analyze a novel, break it down into parts. I decided against it mainly because I was afraid it would take away my pleasure in reading. And so I wonder if some of these people are over analyzing works of fiction to somehow make up for the fact that they don't get it.McAlvienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-90485812322171694772013-11-05T01:37:39.770-08:002013-11-05T01:37:39.770-08:00@Dan Ball: A fellow Blue Blaze Irregular?! AWESOME...@Dan Ball: A fellow Blue Blaze Irregular?! AWESOME! I am sure, in the miserable annals of the EARTH, you will be duly enshrined! You, Sir, are my kinda nerd.<br /><br />No matter where you go, there you are,<br /><br />Storm<br /><br />(B.B.I. Codename: "Big Red")Stormnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-50014287571168574132013-11-04T22:50:02.193-08:002013-11-04T22:50:02.193-08:00Does this mean that Alan Alda's been bullshitt...Does this mean that Alan Alda's been bullshitting just letting us all think he was this dramatic mastermind?Joe Camelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-67684359164785879202013-11-04T15:00:35.285-08:002013-11-04T15:00:35.285-08:00There's a bit that Harlan Ellison talks about ...There's a bit that Harlan Ellison talks about in an interview with the Onion's AV Club at http://www.avclub.com/articles/harlan-ellison-part-two,14253/<br /><br />Short version; Harlan's in the audience at an MLA conference where a critic goes on about the symbolism in one of Harlan's stories. The moderator asks Harlan for his opinion of the critic's points, and Harlan says he thinks the critic was completely wrong, and that the critic didn't even notice that the character he'd built his entire analysis around was black. The critic asked where that was established and Harlan read the line "her face, black against the snow". To which the critic replied "Well <i>I</i> thought you meant there..."Tom Gallowaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-21246062672647860172013-11-04T05:43:52.472-08:002013-11-04T05:43:52.472-08:00From Trapperjan:
Thank you, Mitchell Hundred (11/...From Trapperjan:<br /><br />Thank you, Mitchell Hundred (11/02 12:30 PM) and Nicholas (11/02 3:07 PM). It doesn't matter what the author "meant to say" or the impression the director or cinematographer meant to convey as long as the analysis can be supported with examples from the text or TV show or film. Oftentimes people make unconscious puns, for example, which fit the situation. They don't think them out or plan them, but they just come out in speech. And to Chicago John (11/04 12:04 AM): any teacher who claims to know or understand the “motivations behind every word that an author used” is full of BS. All the reader—or viewer—can know is what can be supported by the information given. It has nothing to do with the motivation of the author. Just because Frost’s “Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening” wasn’t meant by the author to be a meditation on mortality doesn’t mean it can’t also be read as that. The text supports that interpretation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-36069160266002177692013-11-04T00:04:19.975-08:002013-11-04T00:04:19.975-08:00Around 8th grade, I had a teacher who used to insi...Around 8th grade, I had a teacher who used to insist that they knew/understood the reasons and motivations behind every word that an author used. It was maddening to me. The instructor insisted that so many things had symbolism that at first, it turned me off of writing.<br />But then I decided to "prove the teacher wrong" and went full bore into writing.<br /><br />I can't stand when people try to project their agendas into an author's work.ChicagoJohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15963409952606722977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-81108585894240486472013-11-03T18:18:06.066-08:002013-11-03T18:18:06.066-08:00My 9th grade English teacher explained how there w...My 9th grade English teacher explained how there was deep symbolism in virtually every line of the first page of John Steinbeck's <i>The Pearl</i>. I thought it was crap then and I still think it's crap.Hank Gillettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17328364486555780403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-29176040945218733322013-11-03T15:24:43.394-08:002013-11-03T15:24:43.394-08:00In other words, sometimes a rat is just a rat.In other words, sometimes a rat is just a rat.Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-80370501374252349222013-11-03T08:57:18.475-08:002013-11-03T08:57:18.475-08:00From the TVTropes website: Isaac Asimov repeated ...From the TVTropes website: Isaac Asimov repeated in several places an anecdote based on this (Death of the Author theory): He once sat in (in the back of a large lecture hall, so semi-anonymously) on a class where the topic of discussion was one of his own works. Afterward, he went up and introduced himself to the teacher, saying that he had found the teacher's interpretation of the story interesting, though it really wasn't what he had meant at all. The teacher's response was "Just because you wrote it, what makes you think you have the slightest idea what it's about?"Carolynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-56472386167996425672013-11-03T06:14:59.180-08:002013-11-03T06:14:59.180-08:00Reminds me that I still have a book published in t...Reminds me that I still have a book published in the 1970s that's a selection of deliberately over-the-top spoof essays meditating on various aspects of the deeper symbolism of Winnie-the-Pooh.<br /><br />wgWendy M. Grossmanhttp://www.pelicancrossing.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-22155306714364667112013-11-03T00:45:29.169-07:002013-11-03T00:45:29.169-07:00That may be well and good for you, but everything ...That may be well and good for you, but everything I say, do, or write is packed with significance and rife with meaning. Ten years from now some hopeful PhD student will dissect this comment to find the underlying meaning of it. To that young man or woman I say this:<br /><br /><br /><br />FAKEOUT!Cap'n Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11783977137812876489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-75398482589788074872013-11-02T21:12:15.807-07:002013-11-02T21:12:15.807-07:00A few years ago I attended a conference on popular...A few years ago I attended a conference on popular culture that featured dozens of presentations by academics analyzing current TV shows and movies in great depth, finding all sorts of bizarre subtexts. I went up to the leader of the conference and said, "Why don't they just call up the screenwriters and ask them what they meant?" And he laughed and said, "Because they're English professors."Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-63402027278278036892013-11-02T20:23:10.590-07:002013-11-02T20:23:10.590-07:00I have too active an imagination to really interpr...I have too active an imagination to really interpret things. Without an author's input, I could formulate a number of theories and it's never as satisfying as knowing the right answer.<br /><br />On the other hand, Peter Weir's films tend to intentionally invite viewers to interpret what happens to characters either after fade to black or whenever something's not defined. That kind of ambiguity's good, I think. The other kinds...meh.<br /><br />But I kinda think the psychoanalytical approach is interesting. Sometimes, I think Freud overshot it by bringing sexuality into it, but our creations are the sum of our experiences and inspirations. The time we spend living those things and thinking about them, letting them affect us, really shapes our lives--especially the creative part. Ken, something had to shape you to write the way you did, and it's just possible these analyses have found the source. :)<br /><br />Now to watch one of my more conscious inspirations: The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension.Dan Ballhttp://thedanballbrand.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-84732984719284722222013-11-02T16:19:27.428-07:002013-11-02T16:19:27.428-07:00Chris Ledesma, ditto.
Coincidentally, a MASH epis...Chris Ledesma, ditto.<br /><br />Coincidentally, a MASH episode of Ken's started on my TV while I was ordering Must Kill TV. I only realized later it was a Levine-a-palooza.Mike Schryverhttp://frankandjames.dannythestreet.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-91552954012432420732013-11-02T15:31:43.679-07:002013-11-02T15:31:43.679-07:00'twas a dark and stormy night,
The air was fil...'twas a dark and stormy night,<br />The air was filled with sleet,<br />An old man stood out in the rain,<br />His boots were filled with feet.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06248182899977033579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-6845238945714011412013-11-02T15:17:00.666-07:002013-11-02T15:17:00.666-07:00There's an entertaining book called "Nake...There's an entertaining book called "Naked is the Best Disguise," a Freudian analysis of Sherlock Holmes. Among other things, the author makes much of a story where robbers tunnel into a bank from beneath to steal French coins, only to be met by Holmes with a riding crop.Dbensonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-50350606012245839432013-11-02T15:07:28.017-07:002013-11-02T15:07:28.017-07:00That you didn't put any symbolism in MASH does...That you didn't put any symbolism in MASH doesn't mean it's not there. Analysis can be bullshit, but sometimes it can also provide a legitimate, if unintended, reading.<br /><br />I discover unintended meanings in my own writing all the time. There's no reason why it shouldn't happen to MASH episodes. Often the author is not the best placed person to analyze a work.<br /><br />But it's good to be skeptical, as lots of deconstructions are indeed bullshit.Nicolasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-91640650552282056432013-11-02T14:59:40.288-07:002013-11-02T14:59:40.288-07:00> David B
Similarly I heard an interview with P...> David B<br />Similarly I heard an interview with Paul Simon where he said Mickey Mantle once asked him why he used Joe Dimaggio in the song "Mrs. Robinson" instead of him.<br />"Syllables, Mick," he replied.MacGilroynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-17996658923623932192013-11-02T14:45:55.967-07:002013-11-02T14:45:55.967-07:00In university, they made me take a "Psychoana...In university, they made me take a "Psychoanalytical Approaches To Analyzing Literature" course. Premise: all fiction is made up, like a dream, so they can be interpreted as dreams. Required text: Sigmund Freud's "Interpretation of Dreams", and a "Dictionary of Psychoanalysis".<br /><br />You don't even want to think about the kinds of nonsense we were taught to find in poems, stories and books. Penis envy. Oedipal complexes. Fears of abandonment.<br /><br />Being crappy at it when we tried to do it for real, our marks got better when we randomly picked Freudian analogs from the dictionary and arbitrarily applied them to sections of writing. We were called "insightful" and applauded by the prof for what was utterly made up crap. Because it was crap.<br /><br />I can just imagine the fun we would have had with a Levine and Isaacs M*A*S*H script.RyderDAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00980791636129598607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-30654588063727917352013-11-02T14:21:21.126-07:002013-11-02T14:21:21.126-07:00My favorite story about this is Robert Frost's...My favorite story about this is Robert Frost's poem "Stopping By Woods on a Snowy Evening," which ends,<br /><br />The woods are lovely, dark and deep.<br />But I have promises to keep,<br />And miles to go before I sleep, <br />and miles to go before I sleep. <br /><br />And people always wondered why he repeated "And miles to go..." twice. Many theories were drawn up and discussed, and finally someone asked him, and he finally revealed the reason. He said, "It fit the rhyme." That's all. He needed to finish the rhyme, so he repeated it. (Shrugs) Oh well. David Baruffihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09554779573559438331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-9737462958452844822013-11-02T13:53:33.408-07:002013-11-02T13:53:33.408-07:00"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.""Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."Gene Renakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09597597295779971056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-90948092948923944002013-11-02T13:43:47.878-07:002013-11-02T13:43:47.878-07:00Who do you think was a better dresser...Klinger or...Who do you think was a better dresser...Klinger or Jane Austen?Paul Ducanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-52579085907374184492013-11-02T13:33:12.465-07:002013-11-02T13:33:12.465-07:00This reminds me of an anecdote I once heard about ...This reminds me of an anecdote I once heard about a college student who was having to write a paper about a Robert Frost poem (I don't remember which one). Evidently there was a part in the poem where Frost repeated a line, and much speculation was made in class about the symbolism of this repeated line.<br /><br />At the time of this incident, Robert Frost was still alive, so the student contacted him directly and asked him what it meant. <br /><br />He explained that he repeated the line simply because he thought it would sound better. Nonchalant Savanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08195910243453718587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-29964312504431375772013-11-02T13:32:51.425-07:002013-11-02T13:32:51.425-07:00I think your use of "Jesus"
and "An...I think your use of "Jesus"<br />and "Anti-Christ" in that post represents man's struggle between "good" and "evil." Am I right?TheBigAlabamanoreply@blogger.com