tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post8267615528146848645..comments2023-11-03T06:02:02.128-07:00Comments on By Ken Levine: Different structures for different genresBy Ken Levinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17305293821975250420noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-63990503163719287512013-09-20T08:13:45.593-07:002013-09-20T08:13:45.593-07:00Re: "Block" scenes. I've heard other...Re: "Block" scenes. I've heard other writers talk about this. They start off with a funny situation and then work backwards. I believe the writers of Father Ted used that method for the episode "Speed 3".<br /><br />I'm guessing there's lots of methods of generating stories, but that seems like a common one.Johnny Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13302545167970532080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-63345864008634060712013-09-20T08:11:21.860-07:002013-09-20T08:11:21.860-07:00This is a great post! I'm glad to learn that i...This is a great post! I'm glad to learn that it's not unusual, or a sign of a bad writer, to struggle with the middle section of a screenplay. I've always felt the second act was what separated a well-written script from an amateurish one. Keeping the story going by throwing obstacles in the way that feel natural, logical and entertaining is so difficult.<br /><br />I'm also glad to hear I'm not the only one who finds their outlines going out the window when they start writing dialogue. Characters often have a mind of their own, and I hate constraining them... but that often leaves me up the creek. I never know what to do such in such situations, but I guess I'm learning that this is the difficult part of writing: You're always adjusting, looking for the best possible option in terms of story, character, dialogue, etc.<br /><br />If it was easy, everyone would do it! :)<br /><br />That said, constantly adjusting things in order to find the best possible solution isn't much fun :-/<br /><br />Any tips on this part of the process, Ken? Thanks.Johnny Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13302545167970532080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-44792419948354319912013-09-20T04:43:32.620-07:002013-09-20T04:43:32.620-07:00The comment about reuse of songs put me in mind of...The comment about reuse of songs put me in mind of <i>Bye Bye Birdie</i>. I didn't learn until relatively recently that one of its big hits "Put On a Happy Face" was written well before the show was conceived, although whether it had been used in a flop I don't know. In any case, even in the modern era, a song might have a prior existence and then turn up in a musical (or be shoehorned into it). gottacooknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-78768318363442443272013-09-19T22:14:58.293-07:002013-09-19T22:14:58.293-07:00I heard it said that if you can remove the songs f...I heard it said that if you can remove the songs from a musical and still understand the story, that means the libretto is bad--doing what the score is supposed to be doing.Paul Ducanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-20748902876641992552013-09-19T21:28:28.154-07:002013-09-19T21:28:28.154-07:00Until the groundbreaking "Of Thee I Sing"...Until the groundbreaking "Of Thee I Sing" and "Oklahoma!", books for musicals were just pure excuses for the songs (which could be reused in subsequent shows if the first show was a flop), and very little attention was paid to them. Which is why musicals from the thirties, if revived, are very hard to stage. The story of "Anything Goes" is basically crap but the music is so good no one cares. It's a lot different (and a lot harder) today.Breadbakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-10359431907620593502013-09-19T19:48:43.681-07:002013-09-19T19:48:43.681-07:00"Different structures for different genres&qu..."Different structures for different genres" <br /><br />Wasn't that the third verse of "Everyday People" by Sly and the Family Stone?<br /><br />Of course, I could be wrong. emilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-15826235726201934132013-09-19T19:00:24.448-07:002013-09-19T19:00:24.448-07:00Captain Not Obvious, you just post a comment, like...Captain Not Obvious, you just post a comment, like you did, and ask your question in it.DBAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-3571672349730384132013-09-19T17:35:17.468-07:002013-09-19T17:35:17.468-07:00P.G. Wodehouse is reputed to have prepared detaile...P.G. Wodehouse is reputed to have prepared detailed outlines. I find for creating a Wikipedia entry that an outline listing sources is essential.Dana Gabbardhttp://socata.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-42806422410558779772013-09-19T15:09:48.767-07:002013-09-19T15:09:48.767-07:00Ken wrote: "I find in screenplays that beginn...Ken wrote: "<i>I find in screenplays that beginnings are easy (you set up the world and premise) and endings are manageable because you can build to a finite conclusion. You’re not worried about what happens next week? So you can devise a cool climax on Mt. Rushmore or the lovers can ride off into the sunset. The real tough part is the middle. And that’s 60% of your movie.</i>"<br /><br />I found that also applied very much to novel writing. In writing my new book,<i>Tallyho,Tallulah!</i>, that exactly this was true, except that the middle was only 33% of the story. I had the premise and the finale in mind within half an hour of first getting the idea for the book. When I had it assembled enough to begin writing, I whizzed through the first third, as it was all basically done in my head and in my notes. But then I slowed <i><b>way</b></i> down. Whereas the first act took me about three weeks to write, the middle third took months and months. When I got to the final third, I zipped through it in about two weeks. Then <i><b>all</b></i> the rewriting I did after the first draft was completed (And read by a writer friend who gave me over 40 pages of extremely helpful notes, covering almost every page) was in the middle third. Middle's are bitches.<br /><br />In writing plays, I've usually first written an outline that is very, very detailed, every single beat of the the play is in the notes, so that when I sit down actually to knock out a first draft, all I'm really doing is converting notes to stage directions and writing the dialogue. (Although I may have a few dialogue jokes in the notes, for the most part, I do not pre-plan dialogue. That's when I just let the characters speak to me, and type up what I hear them saying.)D. McEwannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-25223689961162487252013-09-19T14:27:15.512-07:002013-09-19T14:27:15.512-07:00Thanks for the extended reply, Ken. Very interesti...Thanks for the extended reply, Ken. Very interesting and helpful.<br /><br />wgWendy M. Grossmanhttp://www.pelicancrossing.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-42638479854511249232013-09-19T12:44:14.302-07:002013-09-19T12:44:14.302-07:00Exactly how does someone submit a Friday question?...Exactly how does someone submit a Friday question? Here? Do you need to know the secret handshake? Is there an email address on the back of your SitCom Room diploma? Just wonderingCaptain Not Obviousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-37247552924977898112013-09-19T11:25:58.713-07:002013-09-19T11:25:58.713-07:00One of the more interesting things I've heard ...One of the more interesting things I've heard about sitcom writing was Carl Reiner talking about how a lot of.the DICK VAN DYKE SHOW scripts were written backwards. They started with the idea for what he called the block scene--which must be old fashioned terminology because I've never heard Ken use it--but anyway they started with the idea for the block scene and then worked backwards to get their characters into that situation. <br /><br />Seems odd to me but maybe a lot of.sitcom scripts are written that way<br /><br />Marcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-76065043321559325752013-09-19T09:52:22.336-07:002013-09-19T09:52:22.336-07:00Do you have any specific examples of concept to ou...Do you have any specific examples of concept to outline to structure to final script? I find when I write a story I tend to get in a few pages and then go back and rewrite and embellish and then I get totally confused and lose the focus of where I was going in the first place.<br />DO you have a roadmap in your head when you are writing to keep you on track?Frank Mhttp://www.muldoncreative.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-17425296691816599702013-09-19T07:08:29.916-07:002013-09-19T07:08:29.916-07:00Thanks for breaking down just how much Rubik's...Thanks for breaking down just how much Rubik's-Cube-like thought goes into a script. I think many viewers watch a sitcom or movie and wonder, "How hard can it be?" Your post reminds me of the great line from Billy Wilder's "Sunset Boulevard" in which the William Holden character says, "Audiences don't know somebody sits down and writes a picture. They think the actors make it up as they go along."Jeannienoreply@blogger.com