tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post8953716738667275133..comments2023-11-03T06:02:02.128-07:00Comments on By Ken Levine: Shocking revelation! The internet got it wrong!By Ken Levinehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17305293821975250420noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-28583189573383097322019-08-19T20:19:20.123-07:002019-08-19T20:19:20.123-07:00I doubt anyone will be following this thread by no...I doubt anyone will be following this thread by now, but have to add a few last words to the stew I began.<br /><br />It's a Masterclass to compare LARCENY, INC to "The White Elephant." Hiken and Ryan had exactly one-fourth the running time to tell the story and also needed to incorporate CAR 54's characters, yet still broke it down to its essentials. <br /><br />And to be fair to Anonymous, the longer version does connect more to "The Red-Headed League," even addressing the issue of dirt removal by having the gang use the luggage to carry away what they excavate. The main difference is still that Doyle concentrated on the investigation uncovering the scheme while the later versions focus on the mechanics of the crime from the perspective of the would-be criminals.E. Yarbernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-28290323644105613312019-08-19T14:34:26.452-07:002019-08-19T14:34:26.452-07:00Oooft: my limited experience of writing on a regul...Oooft: my limited experience of writing on a regular, long-term TV show (The Bill, UK for about 25 years) indicates that the job of the 'Story Barn' was to work out how to recycle the same plot over and over again. And they did it year in, year out.blogwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07362291687463326731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-56430051609754489492019-08-18T18:47:37.189-07:002019-08-18T18:47:37.189-07:00I may be the only one still finding this interesti...I may be the only one still finding this interesting, but by God it's actually pretty interesting.<br /><br />LARCENY, INC was based on a play called THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS by S.J. Perelman and his wife Laura (who was Nathaniel West's sister and had a brief affair with Dashiell Hammett). Paramount Pictures had a half-interest in the play and the Perelmans unsuccessfully tried to get W.C. Fields interested in the project (though he was at Universal by then). Their agent Leah Salisbury got a copy to her pal Gladys Robinson, who played a serious role in picking out scripts for her husband Edward. Gladys convinced Warner Brothers to grab the screen rights, which resulted in a film featuring Edward G., many of the character actors I gushed about last time, and "Jackie C. Gleason." <br /><br />Nat Hiken, who co-wrote "The White Elephant" with Terry Ryan over 20 years later, would certainly have been familiar with LARCENY, INC because he was scripting shorts for Warner Brothers at the same time the feature was made. <br /><br />I think the mystery of the repeated plotline has definitely been solved, though I'll still have to see the original to confirm. Amazon says a drone packing a DVD of the movie is scheduled to smash through my living room window sometime before 9 pm tomorrow. I can't wait. E. Yarbernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-2846697331467881922019-08-17T16:17:17.428-07:002019-08-17T16:17:17.428-07:00I remember watching a dvd commentary of South Park...I remember watching a dvd commentary of South Park and the creators had the same reaction you did of a proposed episode concerning a story line already done by The Simpsons. My reaction is the same to your post. If you can improve or give a different perspective, go for it! As long as you don't use the same lines, what's the problem? Hell, Hollywood doesn't seem to have a problem remaking "A Star is Born"! But I do have a question or two. How does a writer not know what has happened before he/she has arrived, and as South Park goes, how did they not know they were going to "homage" the episode "Who Shot Mr. Burns?". I know you are not privy to their mindset. Just asking. But the one problem I do have with long running series is using the same actors in guest roles. The original Law & Order series was guilty of that in it's later years. I just attributed it to a lazy casting agent. If you can provide any insight,it would be much appreciated. Thanks for the info and entertainment!Colin Strattonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07514175776570611098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-73617839450788709772019-08-17T15:45:07.712-07:002019-08-17T15:45:07.712-07:00I'm feeling almost proprietorial about this si...I'm feeling almost proprietorial about this silly heist plot by now. This year I've been watching a lot of Warner Brothers movies from the 30s and 40s and will definitely check out LARCENY, INC, having recently enjoyed A SLIGHT CASE OF MURDER with Robinson (from a play co-written by Damon Runyon!)<br /><br />And that gives me an excuse to note WB's ALL THROUGH THE NIGHT from 1942, which opens with the dynamite trio of Phil Silvers (with hair!), Jackie Gleason and William Demarest setting the scene for the arrival of Humphrey Bogart. The rest of the cast is just as fun: Edward Brophy, Frank McHugh, Peter Lorre, Barton MacLane, Jane Darwell, Judith Anderson, Conrad Veidt... everywhere you turn is a welcome character actor. They knew how to pack them into films back then. E. Yarbernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-28585306036663893582019-08-17T08:57:26.664-07:002019-08-17T08:57:26.664-07:00Actually, that story line may have originated with...Actually, that story line may have originated with LARCENY, INC., a delightful Edward G. Robinson comedy in which his gang buys a luggage shop as a cover for tunneling into the bank next door. When Woody ripped it off for SMALL TIME CROOKS, he didn't even bother to switch the store's merchandise from luggage to something else. Amazing he didn't get sued.mike schlesingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15824197221204862706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-79071815014208744212019-08-16T04:28:35.378-07:002019-08-16T04:28:35.378-07:00Just click-bait. I suppose "How an intellige...Just click-bait. I suppose "How an intelligent conversation led to changes in a M*A*S*H episode" wouldn't get any clicks.Jeff Boicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14600946876122022978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-13510195639027350412019-08-16T04:17:14.461-07:002019-08-16T04:17:14.461-07:00That's a very good point about "The Red-H...That's a very good point about "The Red-Headed League." While the device of getting through a wall is present in the last four versions of the story I was following, however, what linked the five I mentioned was the use of dynamite and the twist the would-be robbers face at the end. Doyle's story centers on the investigation rather than the thieves, and the guys there tunneled rather than blew their way through the barrier, which is why the author punningly called their ringleader "John Clay." You can still make a connection, though.<br /><br />I checked the annotation by both William S. Baring-Gould and Leslie S. Klinger to see if there were any even earlier inspirations for the scheme (THE COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO came to mind) but neither had any information on that score. Both speculated on a point Doyle ignored, which was how the criminals managed to excavate such an underground marvel without leaving gigantic mounds of earth around. That hooks us up with THE GREAT ESCAPE or possibly even the construction of the "super-lab" in BETTER CALL SAUL. The mole, the merrier, I guess. E. Yarbernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-16277113455680110642019-08-15T16:40:21.218-07:002019-08-15T16:40:21.218-07:00I grew up with MASH as a first-run show in the lat...I grew up with MASH as a first-run show in the late 1970s so the normal *was* Potter, BJ, and Winchester. Imagine my surprise to learn about a different C.O. etc.<br /><br />So who gets the character payment for BJ's mustache?Saburohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00075733019914312218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-41291262416011504382019-08-15T13:08:21.513-07:002019-08-15T13:08:21.513-07:00@ E. Yarber
The basic premise was used long befor...@ E. Yarber<br /><br />The basic premise was used long before Damon Runyon.<br />Arthur Conan Doyle used it as the plot of The Red-Headed League.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-65320383789804571302019-08-15T12:52:20.943-07:002019-08-15T12:52:20.943-07:00This is not just back then. Sometimes when I watc...This is not just back then. Sometimes when I watch a series from the beginning that was made in the 1990s or even the 2000s I will see that early episodes had an actor playing a different character. The early Simpsons had different voices for the characters.MikeNnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-33423225775198947802019-08-15T10:48:35.929-07:002019-08-15T10:48:35.929-07:00One last detail: The missing link between Runyon&#...One last detail: The missing link between Runyon's "Butch Minds the Baby" and CAR 54's "The White Elephant" is 1958's BIG DEAL ON MADONNA STREET, which shifts the scheme from blowing a safe to breaking through a wall. <br /><br />I should have thought of that when writing my last comment, but I'm a bit preoccupied. Have I mentioned that I'm a Nigerian Prince trying to find an American willing to pay my tax bill in order to share millions in gold that would thus be freed? E. Yarbernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-39985372905008594272019-08-15T09:22:59.868-07:002019-08-15T09:22:59.868-07:00@ PJ
"the Vietnamese name Nghe which Niles c...@ PJ<br /><br />"<i>the Vietnamese name Nghe which Niles coaches people to pronounce correctly</i>"<br /><br />That's one of my all-time favorite wordplay sequences on FRASIER. I think in general they were just very fast and loose in temporary character names, just for fun. They even referenced Eddie's (Moose) real-life dog trainer Mathilde de Cagny as someone Frasier quoted.Frank Beansnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-89962046563987054882019-08-15T02:23:54.416-07:002019-08-15T02:23:54.416-07:00Ken, I have a Friday question for you. Did you eve...Ken, I have a Friday question for you. Did you ever work on MASH with Allan Arbus in his role as as Major Sidney Freedman? I have watched multiple time every episode he is in. Barry Traylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14134880916215990198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-35760927172017712532019-08-14T21:07:55.365-07:002019-08-14T21:07:55.365-07:00Sadly, the Internet is full of fan hypotheses posi...Sadly, the Internet is full of fan hypotheses posing as fact. People turn a "disagreement" into a "fight". These tales are a game of telephone writ large, and facts get steamrolled by dramatic exaggeration.<br />Maurice M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/10714259304798576902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-27894359245449761972019-08-14T19:56:12.385-07:002019-08-14T19:56:12.385-07:00How can I believe you? You're on the internet....How can I believe you? You're on the internet.StoicJimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12180997130921988420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-67615310075603246412019-08-14T19:53:58.423-07:002019-08-14T19:53:58.423-07:00This leads into a Friday question I've been wa...This leads into a Friday question I've been wanting to ask. Is the repetitive use of certain names and phrases on Frasier intentional? It's noticeable when you binge watch on netflix, but probably wasn't when it aired unless you had a spectacular memory. <br /><br />just off the top of my head:<br />there are two Dr. Kagans, several seasons apart<br />the phrase "Helena Bonham Carter riding a pony" comes up twice, several seasons apart<br />the Vietnamese name Nghe (sp?) which Niles coaches people to pronounce correctly<br />I believe the name Gunter repeats, but I'd have to check<br />almost every one of Frasier's love interests (with a few exceptions) is an underwear model, never lingerie model, it's always underwear model. <br /><br />I know I'll think of others as soon as I post this!<br /><br />PJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-17856949115172013102019-08-14T18:13:43.571-07:002019-08-14T18:13:43.571-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-66101541991917621932019-08-14T16:43:58.987-07:002019-08-14T16:43:58.987-07:00Peter, I was a bit hazy on the details, and while ...Peter, I was a bit hazy on the details, and while watching the movie, I was thinking Natalie Wood was married to a stunt double?MikeNnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-19334334040722711962019-08-14T15:31:53.598-07:002019-08-14T15:31:53.598-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Jane Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10110836920168190449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-14463585594643296092019-08-14T15:17:51.381-07:002019-08-14T15:17:51.381-07:00Stop me if you've heard this one before:
Repe...Stop me if you've heard this one before:<br /><br />Repetition of storylines is not unusual when you consider the amount of material TV plowed through. Even a quality series like THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW began to repeat earlier premises in its final season. <br /><br />CAR 54 WHERE ARE YOU and GOMER PYLE USMC had episodes with identical plots involving crooks who rent a failed diner in order to break into the bank next door, only to make more money legitimately running the place: respectively "The White Elephant" and "Dynamite Diner." The same story turned up as the first act of Woody Allen's SMALL TIME CROOKS, and may have originated in Damon Runyon's BUTCH MINDS THE BABY, which was filmed in 1942 with Broderick Crawford and Shemp Howard. <br /><br />Warner Brothers TV was handling so many shows that they had no trouble recycling MAVERICK storylines or even scripts in episodes of 77 SUNSET STRIP or THE ALASKANS.<br /><br />John Cleese said that one reason he didn't hang on for the fourth season of MONTY PYTHON was that he felt the third had almost entirely consisted of reused ideas, with an occasional exception like "The Cheese Shop."<br /><br />And that's not even counting deliberate remakes. Laurel and Hardy revisited a lot of their silent film material when they converted to talkies, such as LOVE 'EM AND WEEP reappearing as CHICKENS COME HOME, or ANGORA LOVE rippling through LAUGHING GRAVY and THE CHIMP. E. Yarbernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-7440508432811081052019-08-14T15:01:08.838-07:002019-08-14T15:01:08.838-07:00I did notice the similarity in the two episodes bu...I did notice the similarity in the two episodes but I don't think one was a repeat of the other. It was the same procedure but under an entirely different situation with a different result. The colonel in PREVENTATIVE MEDICINE was out of commission whereas Flagg (thank God) returned to fight another day! VincentShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04882196847468143484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-26428527487550519102019-08-14T14:57:32.775-07:002019-08-14T14:57:32.775-07:00Blogger Curt Alliaume said
....
The longer a... <i>Blogger Curt Alliaume said<br /><br />....<br /><br /> The longer a program runs, the harder it must be not to repeat something (even by accident), especially as the writing staff changes. At least you took a stand against it happening again. (How many episodes of the last three years of Bewitched used the same plot line as one from the early years? A dozen or more?)<br /><br /> 8/14/2019 6:54 AM</i><br /><br />The very first episode the show filmed with Dick Sargent was a remake of an episode four years earlier with Dick York (Columbia's old short subjects department, where many of the Screen Gems crew cut their teeth, also had no problems remaking two-reelers with the same plots as they had used 10 or so years earlier, while Jack Benny made a habit of redoing his old radio scripts or live TV broadcasts for the filmed episodes that would be syndicated. So some of the crew who might have worked on both episodes of M*A*S*H might simply have thought they were doing it over just because some of the roles had changed since the original episode).J Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15175515543694122729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-24128141720885080002019-08-14T14:28:05.648-07:002019-08-14T14:28:05.648-07:00I've read articles on MASH fan sites on the In...I've read articles on MASH fan sites on the Internet in the past that said the episode was written as a response to "White Gold", because the writers and Alan Alda were unhappy with the message the first episode sent. Strangely, the articles didn't quote anyone saying this. And it's not like you are hard to find to get the right story.<br /> Houston Mitchellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19336675.post-79441789291513314862019-08-14T12:30:35.035-07:002019-08-14T12:30:35.035-07:00Damned internet!
Before it was invented by Al Gor...Damned internet!<br /><br />Before it was invented by Al Gore, nobody got stories wrong!Todd Everettnoreply@blogger.com