Brian starts us off.
Do you think modern cable shows go too far with their depictions of nudity and sexual content? It just seems that every show produced in recent memory tries to force in as much nudity and sex as possible, regardless of relevance to the plot. Is it merely a cheap ploy to entice viewers or do you feel it can add something to a program?
There’s no question that there's some gratuitous sex and nudity. Early episodes of GAME OF THRONES seem to have all boring exposition scenes take place in a brothel where there was much to look at while the dry text was being delivered.
My favorite exploitation cable scene was in one of those women-in-prison movies where all these hot coed inmates were naked in the shower… reading their mail.
But as long as the viewer is given warnings at the top of the show they can decide for themselves whether the material is right for them. To censure the artists of the content is wrong. As long as the viewer is not blindsided I see nothing wrong with it. There are a billion other viewing options. Watch one of those if you're offended by the sex and nudity. Remember: There's always the Hallmark Channel.
From Tammy:
What is your favorite sitcom setting (family, workplace etc.) as a viewer? And which is your favorite as a writer? Thanks!
Workplace because if you do it well it can be both. One could certainly argue that the gang at CHEERS is a “family.” But workplace settings allow for more different types of people to come together. And you avoid the annoying precocious children who don’t talk like any children in real life.
Dave-El wonders:
Hi, Ken! Your comment about using a table in the mess tent for re-writes reminds me of a possible Friday question I have: What exactly was Igor serving up in the mess tent chow line? Those pots were usually filled with some form of goop that was supposed to be mashed potatoes or creamed corn or something like that. Was it actually anything edible?
Jeff Maxwell, who played Igor, often checks in to the blog so he might be able to answer directly, but from what I understood it was all very decent food prepared by the Fox commissary. I never ate it. One of the unwritten rules of production is you don’t eat “set food.” It’s prepared for the scene, not you. There is always a craft-services table nearby with plenty of snacks if you get hungry.
And finally, from Kevin from VA:
Speaking of "inside" jokes, last year you posted a great story of your meeting with Al Hirschfeld and how he always snuck his daughter's name into his caricatures. I left a very slight "inside" joke in the comments section from that post that may have slipped by you and possibly even some of your loyal readers.
My question is when you've done inside jokes, have you enjoyed it more when others "got" the joke or more when they didn't?
Working "Nina" into Hirschfeld's drawing did nothing to detract from it. An inside joke is different because maybe you're going with an inside joke instead of a joke designed for a general audience.
But if you're going to go that route, first and foremost you hope the “inside people” you wrote the joke for get it. And it’s always great when others get it because it gives them the feeling that they'e on the inside as well.
I would only add be very very sparing with inside jokes. You want the inside jokes to just whiz by. And you want to surround them with jokes meant for everybody. There’s certainly a danger in inside jokes. Once the viewer senses that he’s being excluded he’ll leave.
I found this to be more the case in radio back “in the day” (and by that I mean, when radio actually existed). Some disc jockeys would do inside jokes meant for other radio people in the industry. There would be jokes about the format or station policy or the competition. Very funny for their peers but not the general public.
Robert W. Morgan, in the heyday of KHJ in Los Angeles was guilty of that in my opinion. Morgan could be devastatingly funny, but over time he would sprinkle in a little inside zinger or two. Eventually inside jokes became 90% of his act. So radio people listen to tapes of him today and think he’s a genius. Play the same tape for someone not in the business and they have no idea what all the shouting’s about. Then have them listen to a tape of Dan Ingram on WABC in New York. They'll be laughing today, 50 years later. Beware of inside jokes.
What’s your Friday Question? I could use a Tesla.
Ken, I remember that question from last week and how you really let it slide by:
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Legion_of_Decency#:~:text=The%20National%20Legion%20of%20Decency,of%20the%20American%20Catholic%20Church.&text=The%20C%20rating%20was%20issued%20from%201933%20until%201
I remember the firebombings and death threats.
I recall CBS airing an apology about the name of a character on an episode of PHYLLIS. Over the years, I've read and heard mentions of the need to clear character names for use on television shows. I imagine it would be impossible to come up with character names that are not shared by at least one person in the world, so what is the procedure for clearing a character name?
ReplyDeleteOn a related note, have you ever had to change the name of a character because of clearance issues?
What do you need with a Tesla?
ReplyDeleteThere's nowhere to go anyway.
I haven't seen you talk about "Big Mouth", the Nick Kroll adult cartoon. I know it's not for everyone, but I think it's hilarious and this season very thoughtful. I know you are not a fan of Maya Rudolph, but I think she gives a great performance as Connie, the Hormone Monstress. She won the Emmy this year for it. Have you seen the show and if so, what is your opinion of it?
ReplyDelete"I object to all this sex on the television...I keep falling off!" -Monty Python
ReplyDelete"Do you think modern cable shows go too far with their depictions of nudity and sexual content?"
ReplyDelete"There’s no question that there's some gratuitous sex and nudity."
"Some"? That's practically all there is on TV anymore! That's been a problem for like two or more decades, and it just keeps getting worse - especially with streaming, because, derp-derp, no censorship! It's like mainstream entertainment has taken the philosophy that, "Sex sells," cranked it up to eleven, and has made that the major selling point of practically every single show in recent years. This is why I can't watch modern and contemporary TV shows anymore: they're all obsessed with the characters' sex lives (and/or lack thereof); comedy is always seeing how many women John can get into bed with him; drama is Jane finding out she's pregnant and not knowing who the daddy is; conflict is Mr. and Mrs. Doe trying to figure out how their eight-year-old offspring already knows what sex is; and, of course, to boost ratings, there's always the stunt of having two of the hot female castmembers make out with each other like their plane is going down (yeah, as a guy, I can dig it, but after a while, the novelty wears off, and it becomes an overkilled gimmick like 3D).
But, then again, I know how much it pisses everybody else off in the comments whenever I say anything about this, so I probably should have just moved along and not said anything at all.
THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW, THE BOB NEWHART SHOW and BARNEY MILLER all began as attempts to evenly split the programs between workplace and domestic settings. MOORE eventually settled on the office while MILLER quickly shifted that way after drastically revamping the initial script between the pilot and first official episode. Only NEWHART managed to retain the divided setting, possibly because the star made sure that Bob and Emily never had kids.
ReplyDeleteI just remembered that after Bill Murray and Gilda Radner created the Todd and Lisa characters on "SNL", the second sketch had writers Al Franken and Tom Davis gave the Todd character the last name of "LaBounta" which caused their friend with that name to threaten to sue so the next sketch-co-written with creators Anne Beatts and Rosie Shuster-gave Todd the permanent last name of DiLaMuca. Lisa's last name was always Loopner...
ReplyDeleteThe nudity, excessive blood and gore, and foul language seem to impress the critics and Emmy committee. However I always found it intriguing that when these shows from premium channels are stripped on broadcast or cable TV and have to be cleaned up they fail miserably. Just goes to show you -- quality, no; exploitation, yes.
ReplyDelete@Philly Cinephile
ReplyDeleteThe producers of Seinfeld got sued by Mike Costanza, college friend of Jerry Seinfeld, for appropriating his name for the George character. The Kramer character was named after Larry David's neighbor and they had to clear his name before using it. Otherwise he would have been Kessler.
The Simpsons character Armin Tamzarian was named after an actual judge who used to be an insurance claims adjuster who had assisted episode writer Ken Keeler. They didn't get his permission first, though.
@tavm
The Richard Feder of Fort Lee, New Jersey, who always wrote letters to Roseanne Roseannadanna on Weekend Update was character-writer Alan Zweibel's actual brother-in-law.
Thanks for answering my question, Ken! My personal favorite is the "group of friends" setting, but I see your point on how the workplace allows for the most varied characters (which also makes it more moving when they do eventually become a "family"). When "group of friends" sitcoms do it, it often feels forced - I'm currently watching Irish sitcom DERRY GIRLS and I love it, but it bugs me that some of them would never be friends in real life.
ReplyDeleteI too hate sitcom kids (who doesn't?), but one show where they actually did talk and behave like kids - and were funny as real kids often are - was (British sitcom) OUTNUMBERED. The writers claimed this was because the show was half-improvised, but I usually take that kind of claim with a grain of salt, so who knows.
I've never really been offended by sex and nudity in and of itself, but I do get frustrated when it's in something that could've otherwise gotten a lower rating. Something like DEXTER or DEADPOOL, sure, whatever, those were never gonna be appropriate for kids. But there are a huge number of '80s comedy films that are absolutely fantastic, that I would love to share with my nephew or whatever, except for that one bit that makes it a no-go.
ReplyDeleteTake SIXTEEN CANDLES, for example. I'm not gonna try and pretend I didn't enjoy seeing Haviland Morris's bared breasts, but that scene makes it a movie I can't in good conscience show to a twelve year old boy. Yeah, it's a milder example, and I get that if he wants to see breasts it's not hard, especially in the internet era, but still, it takes what is otherwise a really good movie for the whole family, one that adults and kids could enjoy alike, and makes it awkward to watch together. And for what? It adds nothing to the story at all.
I don't think I'm a prude. I'm happy to watch TV and movies with nudity. Heaven knows I binged all the way through Orange is the New Black. But I think there's value in variety. Not everything needs it, and it's nice to have things that parents and kids can watch together. Things that are actually enjoyable for both age groups, like MASH (which I definitely watched with my parents as a kid) or The Office, not just kids shows with a parent-friendly joke sprinkled in now and again, and certainly not the same exact Christmas movie made sixty billion times under slightly different names.
Watching the GOMER PYLE finale last week on METV, it sounded like Sgt. Carter made a call to Col. Bill Persky...
ReplyDeleteInside jokes work if they're funny. One of the biggest factories for inside jokes was Warner Bros. animation, and in the glory days, the biggest inside joke of all was a major character in cartoons directed by Friz Freleng, who was short, red-haired, had a mustache, and constantly lost his temper. The writers and layout man devised a character based on that. Sound familiar?
ReplyDeleteBut the others don't detract and are in good fun. Chuck Jones did a cartoon that ends with a doctor named I. Frisby who looks like Freleng throwing a fit--you didn't need to know who it was modeled on to find it funny. By the way, Friz got even: In one cartoon, there's a couple named Chuck and Dorothy who look like the Jones, and in another, Bugs takes on Charles M. Wolf, who's a bit absent-minded.
Ken, if a character is shown that is no longer on the show (e.g., the character died) does the actor in the flashback or picture on the mantle get a residual?
ReplyDeleteHi Ken,
ReplyDeleteDo you recall the title of that women-in-prison shower reading their mail movie?
Best,
Armando
It can backfire.. Aneta Corsaut, who played schoolteacher Helen Crump and was Andy Griffith’s love interest on and off-camera, recommended naming a hep cat horn player who dropped by Mayberry “Phil Sunkel” as a tribute to a hep cat horn player she knew by that name.
ReplyDeleteTurned out, the real Phil Sunkel was not amused and sued for $20,000, reportedly setting for $5,000.
https://metv.com/stories/aneta-corsaut-named-this-mayberry-character-after-a-friend-who-turned-around-and-sued-the-show
Of Igor's lines on MASH, one of my all-time favorites is when he serves up "cream of weenie". Don't remember which episode it's from, but it always made my family roar. And yes, we were usually eating at the time.
ReplyDeleteIn the words of George Michael from his song I Want Your Sex:
ReplyDelete"Sex is natural, sex is good
Not everybody does it
But everybody should
Sex is natural, sex is fun
Sex is best when it's one on one"
A couple of years ago, shitty actor Kevin Sorbo tweeted to ask if women were so upset by Trump's pussy grabbing comments, then who bought all those copies of Fifty Shades of Grey. It made sense that he had to ask. Republican men often have difficulty understanding the difference between adults having consensual sex and committing sexual assault.
1998, channel surfing on cable - HBO apparently has a teaser offering because
ReplyDelete"OZ" is playing.
My thought - "Full frontal (hairy) male nudity on cable TV" - then changed the channel.
Some years later, after several seasons of Mad Men (with, to my eye, had the finest ever assemblage of womanly acting talent), Matt Weiner stating that the conventional "exposure limitations" of cable TV did no harm whatever - saying that their love scenes were plenty sexy - perhaps even better - with those strictures.
I recall being transfixed by an apparently nude-under-the-fur-coat Alexis Bledel tantalizing Vincent Kartheiser in a late Mad Men episode. When questioned, Weiner commented that the coat was secured by strategically-placed double-sided tape.
One surmises that Kartheiser was also transfixed - and that he later "removed the tape" - because they subsequently married.
If anyone needs visual context for Jahn's comment on Alexis Bledel, here's a helpful link.
Deletehttps://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nD0EFOjIk5w/T7pgm2rlznI/AAAAAAAAEnk/7_zeWdZATnQ/s1600/alexis-bledel-topless-under-fur-in-mad-men-01-900x675.jpg
"Nowhere to go in a Tesla"
ReplyDeleteAu contraire. Tesla offers "2,000+ Supercharger Stations with 20,000+ Superchargers" See the link.
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger
Workplace settings (avoid annoying precocious children)
ReplyDeleteAnd now a Friday Question - can you think of a comedy series with "normal children"?
Right off, I can think of two - Leave it to Beaver and The Andy Griffith Show.
OK - can you think of one since 2000? 1990? 1980?
I'm less bothered by sex and nudity than I am by the ridiculous amounts of gratuitous blood and gore; I almost gave up on LOVECRAFT COUNTRY, but stuck it through--though I doubt I'll come back for Season 2. I also hate it when people 20 feet away shoot someone in the head, not only because it's almost impossible at that distance unless you're a bona fide sharpshooter, but also because there's almost no blood in the human head, yet gallons gush out of the wound.
ReplyDeleteAnd the pedant in me groans when characters in period shows throw "fuck" around like confetti. Most people just didn't swear like that back then; even the otherwise marvelous MRS. MAISEL abuses this privilege no end. The worst offender is PERRY MASON; in one episode, he told a judge to fuck off; in real life he would have been immediately tossed into a cell and faced disbarment, but nothing happened.
I remember a backsell by The Real Don Steele on "New York's A Lonely Town (When You're the Only Surfer Boy in Town)" about Sebastian Stone freezing his ass off there. Solid inside joke I thought.
ReplyDeleteHappy Fractious Friday everyone. Too bad the neon fun jungle is closed for now.
When I was at the CBS commissary we would sometimes prepare prop food for a show. It was real, edible food. Often they would require several of the same item for multiple takes. What happened to it after they finished shooting I can't remember.
ReplyDeleteI've said this before. Despite many of the raves that cable shows receive a lot of them really aren't that great relatively speaking. The main reason to watch cable is to, pardon my vulgarity, see tits and ass and to hear the word "fuck."
However, broadcast isn't innocent in all this either. When "NYPD Blue" first aired one of the things they tried to bring attention to the show was slipping in very brief flashes of nipples or a butt crack, etc. It didn't last much beyond the first season. And all the good stuff has been blurred or edited out for syndication.
There was also the miniseries, "Shaka Zulu." They got away with some bare breasts. I suppose it was because they were supposedly depicting African "natives."
Even though my inside joke question was a few weeks ago I'll thank you for answering Kevin from VA's question. It was more of what I was expecting.
M.B.
Speaking of watching the Hallmark Channel for tame programming - I've worked on some stuff for Hallmark Channel including their Yule log video, which is hours of kittens and puppies running around in front of a Christmas tree and a fireplace. When the network came to set one day, one of the crew was trying to make polite conversation with them and told them (without any sarcasm) "The Yule log is my mother's favorite thing to watch." Network people: "Oh that's great." Crew person: "Yeah, she has severe dementia so this is right up her alley."
ReplyDelete@Philly Cinephile When Allan Arbus first appeared on M*A*S*H, his character was named "Milton Freedman". I always figured the name change to "Sidney" was due to the economist
ReplyDeleteMilton Friedman.
I am put off by all the swearing the roommate does on Curb your Enthusiasm, every other line is an f-bomb. Doesn't add to the story/show distracts from it. I know it's cable, but talking about waxed fruit doesn't require a litany of expletives. Time and place for everything.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who writes those hallmark movies (or tries too). His current one running on a different network was produced in England, and he had to help re-write it and add more sex and swearing which is better liked across the pond. Not to spoil it, but they all had a Happy Christmas.....
Are there shows with precocious children you don't find annoying? In no particular order, I've quite liked Malcolm in the Middle, Young Sheldon, The Adventures of Pete and Pete, and Fresh Off the Boat.
ReplyDeleteThis is apropos of nothing, but since I know Ken and several commenters are watching Jeopardy:
ReplyDeleteCan you believe that not a single contestant knew the answer "West Side Story"? That was one of the easiest Final Jeopardy questions ever.
FWIW I always thought it was spelled "Kraft services."
ReplyDeletep.s. my uncle worships *his* Tesla...
About that Final Jeopardy tonight: The prompt began "Ads for the 2020 revival of this musical said..." Two of the contestants responded "What is Wicked?", but that show hasn't had a revival; it's still in its original run, since 2003.
ReplyDeleteI have a question about “Becker” (which I still believe to be one of the funniest shows ever). Why didn’t Becker wear a lab coat? Every doctor I’ve ever had has worn either a lab coat or scrubs. And how is working with Ted Danson?
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of inside jokes, I remember when I saw a performance of your play “A or B?,” one of the biggest laughs came from a reference to Frasier. We all appreciated it knowing the playwright was in attendance.
ReplyDeleteForget sex - there's way too much vomit in shows these days. Every damn show someone is blowing chunks. Makes me want to throw up.
ReplyDeleteDave-El wonders: "What exactly was Igor serving up in the mess tent chow line?”
ReplyDeleteKen is right. Though not too many of us ate it, all that swill came directly from the Fox commissary and was actually quite good. When it first arrived, it was pretty edible. After an hour of shooting, stirring and scraping it on and off dirty trays, not so much. Our prop guy would add water and/or milk to give mashed potatoes, etc., the perfect consistency for slopping and/or slinging. I once proudly scored a perfect, one-take mashed potato bullseye on Mike Farrell’s chest.
Ere I Saw Elba: Now that winter is upon us, it’s time for you and yours to sit down to a piping hot bowl of cream of weenie soup. It’s delicious with a dollop of sour cream, 10 shakes of your favorite hot sauce, a handful of crushed saltines and a large bottle of Pepto Bismol.
@Jeff Maxwell:
ReplyDeleteThanks for the tip. I was also wondering, for the main course, if I should go with liver or fish? Or maybe something else?
@Jeff Maxwell,
ReplyDeleteIf memory serves me right, I recall my favorite line of yours was "Three bags full, sir?" My dad and I laughed out loud at that.
Your character's name was bit of inside humor too, because if people didn't know their classical composers, they wouldn't get the nod to Igor Stravinsky, no?
@Jeff Maxwell Thanks for the added insight to my question!
ReplyDeleteWith the latest disappearance of RichBro Radio, are you familiar with The Retro Attic?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.retroatticrareoldiesradio.com
Here's a potential Friday question.... I was watching an old episode of Cheers the other night, and I was kind of struck by the rather prominent placing of a Budweiser bottle and a Coors bottle. I'd never really noticed "branding" before and I've watched every episode multiple times. So my question is.... was Cheers approached for product placement by liquor companies and did they accept? Or were these bottles just good props with no sort of deal struck with the companies?
ReplyDelete