This occurred to me watching a first-run movie at home last night. The credits were tiny. You couldn’t read them unless you were a sniper or had X-Ray vision. Now I understand that if the movie is meant to be seen on the big screen. In that case, large credits look huge. I remember one Sylvester Stallone movie where his credit literally filled the entire screen. I saw it at a WGA screening and the entire audience laughed. Talk about shameless ego.
But nowadays, if your hero doesn’t wear a cape then chances are your movie is going to be seen in living rooms. And people don’t have 400 foot screens. So why not make the credits a little bigger?
Watching the new season of DEXTER, the credits were quite large. You could actually read names. And I thought, why not? It's a TV show.
The problem with most TV series now is because of no opening titles and ever-expanding writing staffs, the credits run underneath the programming. So you don’t want them so large as to distract from the action. In that case I say, at least use legible fonts. Tiny credits in a weird font — the viewer has no chance of reading it. (That said, there were a couple of shows I worked on where I wished the credits were smaller.)
Color is also important. Yellow credits read better than white and most colors. There’s usually not that much yellow in set dressing and wardrobe because it doesn’t favor skin tones. So yellow credits tend to stand out.
On MASH the credits were done in a stencil font but were quite large. All of the actors’ credits were in the opening titles and we had a very small staff so only four or five credits during the body of the show.
I’m a person who pays attention to credits. Always have. TV, movies, contributing cartoonists in magazines, support staff in podcasts, etc. I used to assume I was the only one but lots of people it seems take notice. Other than my relatives, who’s going to give a shit about my writing credit? But apparently, folks do. Some folks. Okay, one or two. But still. That’s more than just me.
And don’t get me started with the network practice of squeezing end credits. To me that’s criminal and I don’t know how the unions allow that. What it shows of course, is that networks could care less who actually makes their shows, dedicated craftsmen who work long hours. God forbid a network should devote 20 precious seconds to give them the recognition they more than deserve.
Bottom line: Credits should be bigger… except for Sylvester Stallone.
I recall, though, that William Christopher's name was necessarily in a smaller font because his last name was so long. Farrell and Loretta are seven letters and they fit. But 11, no.
ReplyDeleteBTW, I hate the reruns that speed through the credits of the previous episode of Law and Order, while the new ep is starting.
I noticed this same thing last weekend. One of the movies I watched had tiny end credits (I think it was American Underdog). Couldn't read it very easily on the TV screen. The weird thing is, it was just white credits on a black screen, so lots of empty space, it wasn't even for a creative credit format.
ReplyDeleteKen, how are these channels getting away with squeezebacks for the credits and credits that roll at three times the speed of sound?
ReplyDeleteIs it something in the contract that allows them to do this?
You have something in common with Lisa Douglas (Eva Gabor) on Green Acres (a show which received an extra laugh sometimes from credits appearing in odd places e.g. on the back of washing, pancakes etc)-
ReplyDeleteOn one episode she explained to her husband that they only stay on "long enough for their mothers to see them".
Universal drama series in the 1970's e.g Mystery Movie were often easily identifiable because the guest star thru director credits were generally in a large upper case stretched out font (Wayne Fitzgerald concept maybe).
Re color, I loved seeing red credits in the 50's thru 70's -
Sadly however when those productions appear on the internet on fading film stock they are often very difficult to read.
And don't get me started on credit fonts where some letters are almost identical to others eg. lower case U and N in the Aladdin style font.
I always try to read every credit always on every show, which actually bugs me. Must be some dormant OCD. If my lifetime credit-reading time was ever accumulated, there would be time enough for someone industrious to have built an empire.
ReplyDeletePre-pandemic, we unwittingly upset the cleanup crews at theaters like Cinepolis (where they are not allowed to touch anything until the last patron is out, which we didn’t know). We stopped after a son, waiting in the lobby for us, overheard some terrible comments about our mothers. I will often slow the DVR speed to 1/16th to read that blur of a credit word-dump shown on some channels. I always wonder how unions let programmers ruin that moment for artists and performers.
I knew a Hollywood celebrity house sitter way, way back in the fun, fun days. Producers and other TV types often prominently displayed framed screenshots of their credits, and most looked exactly like the MASH pic you used here. Where do you hang yours?
Framing and displaying show credits is obviously a thing. These days, how does one proudly display their blur of a screenshot-credit?
Nowadays, when people talk about their favorite shows they DO talk about the showrunners and writers so those credits are probably more important than ever
ReplyDeleteNetworks show their respect for the people who make their shows in the form of sizable paychecks. People in all walks of life work hard and merit recognition but only show business posts public credits on each individual project. How is squeezing the credits less respectful than the complete lack of credit afforded school teachers, truck drivers or grocery clerks? Are they less deserving than the caterer on Roseanne? As long as your check clears, you've gotten as much respect as anyone else.
ReplyDeleteMy aunt is in the Business and we've all been "trained" to watch the credits. Depending on good the movie was is how sympathetic I am to the cinema staff waiting for me and my wife to leave so they can clean the place up.
ReplyDeleteThe compression squeeze and fast-fast-forward of credits that Carter mentioned is boggling. How are they permitted to do that?
Even worse is Netflix. Scrambling to remember the remote command to bring back the credits and stop Netflix from force-feeding me the next episode/movie.
"I’m a person who pays attention to credits. Always have."
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid, everybody could identify Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck or Foghorn Leghorn. I knew who Mel Blanc was.
I also kept an eye out for classic Looney Tunes writers' credits, especially Michael Maltese, Warren Foster, and Tedd Pierce.
DeleteI highly recommend the memoir of a Looney Tunes ink & painter, "Living Life Inside the Lines" by Martha Sigall. Wonderful stories about working at the Looney Tunes studio and she expresses a very pleasant and positive energy.
I am a bit shocked that a professional writer wrote "I could care less".
ReplyDeleteI was going to tiptoe around that.
DeleteM.B.
Thae credits on AMERICAN GODS were faint red on black and tended to flicker out. Maybe the producers believe that everyone in the world is online and will go to the show's site to learn who was in the damn thing.
ReplyDeleteWhat with IMDB, there’s even less incentive for legible credits at the end of shows. I sometimes find myself looking up credits several times during or just after an episode.
ReplyDeleteNow, about closed captioning- that should be worth a column or two!
I was going to bring up iMDB, but you beat me to it.
DeleteM.B.
as with everything, simpsons did it https://comb.io/q0QJY3
ReplyDeleteOne thing I've been curious about is whenever there are sort of off-center credit placements . . . for example, when Gene Reynolds & Larry Gelbart were the co-producers of M*A*S*H during Seasons 2-4, Gene's credit would be toward the left of the scene, while below that, Larry's would be toward the right of the screen. That's just one specific example I can give, but I've seen it before; is this a stylistic choice, or is there actually some sort of legal/union reason for this type of crediting?
ReplyDeleteHas anyone noticed the font size for movie/TV information pertinent to the plot is now huge?
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm referring to is, for example, the first scene of a show and it would say: "May, 1989."
It used to be small font at the bottom of the screen. I think I may have first noticed it in Tarantino films, but now it fills the entire screen, largest font possible.
Could not care less. PLEASE.
ReplyDeleteIt's OK to say, I could care less, as long as it's dripping with sarcasm.
DeleteMaybe this is a Friday Question, but I was wondering if you had seen this article or heard about the fan theories regarding Jeanne Schulherr? Any insight on this enigma?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.metv.com/stories/frank-burns-bride-remains-a-total-mystery-to-m-a-s-h-fans
Speaking of the size of type on the screen... Every freaking show nowadays contains characters texting each other and they show the text on the screen, which *of course* is too small and on the screen too briefly to read so you have to hit pause and back up to try to read it and it's still too small unless you walk over to the TV and squint and sometimes even then you can't see it, and of course it's conveying vital plot information that God forbid someone say out loud.
ReplyDeleteIn case you can't tell, I'm getting old.
==credits that roll at three times the speed of sound==
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of the Simpsons, I think they had an episode in which Kent Brockman believed the world was ending, and in his final broadcast signed off with "The following people are gay!" and then a scroll at, well, three times the speed of sound
I just watched most of an episode of the Spanish language version of Cheers. Outside of being a jumbled form of the original, get a load of the size of these credits:
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/dbsf2Fn_C0U?t=1861
To Craig Gustafson: I read the credits to those cartoons, too. I also learned how to read roman numerals quickly because of them.
ReplyDeleteKent,
ReplyDeleteYou put forth a good argument however these credits may need to be used for future job prospects. It's their resume, sort of. Maybe after seeing Ken Levine and David Isacks on a screen numerous times led to other job opportunities for them. So it's not as simple as saying it should be like teachers or truck drivers. Now, are actors, writers and make up people more important then teachers, truck drivers or my pool guy Sven? Of course not. Trust me, nobody is better then Sven.
Where does Sven work?
DeleteIn movies I really miss the dedicated opening credits that movies had when I was growing up. Sometimes they were the most entertaing part of the film! And a lot of times they actually credited the credits creator! One of my favorites has always been the opening credits to Audrey Hepurn's 'Two for the Road.' The graphics and Henry Mancini's beautiful music, just so satisfying to me. Sets up the opening scene perfectly.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMsZGgBV3x4
Beautiful opening--one of my favorites, too.
DeleteOftentimes, Staff Writers don't get any screen credit at all. Or, if they're lucky, it will flash for a millisecond at the end while the tag is playing. And you have to tell your friends and family, "I really write on that show! I promise!"
ReplyDeleteThe fast forward button was invented for credits. Do we really need to know who provided the cat food? And the bowl? Isn't that what google is for?
ReplyDeleteIsn't that why we have awards shows? Best best boy? We need more award shows
I'm looking on the bottom of my laptop, I don't see credits for who designed the box, printed the circuit board, put it together, put it in a box. Don't they deserve credit?
Only time I read credits, watching MASH and Frazier to see if Ken wrote it. Simpson's during Halloween episode for the funny names. Over the top comedies where they have strange credits.
ReplyDeleteI've never owned clothes by Botany 500, stayed in hotels mentioned where guests stayed at on talk shows.
Since others have already said what I was going to say let me add this.
ReplyDeleteI was one of those people that got up and left the theater as soon as the end credits started rolling. That was before "Airplane." I don't know if it was the first movie to have a tidbit at the end of the credits, but now I wait to see if there's anything extra. Not all are worth the wait, however. I didn't enjoy "The Hangover," but their credits were funnier than the rest of the movie combined.
It's a little harder with the sci-fi/super hero genre because their credits are almost a reel in length by themselves.
Also, when I was active in the industry I watched credits for people I might know.
M.B.
Kent said, "As long as your check clears, you've gotten as much respect as anyone else."
ReplyDeleteNot really. IATSE, the union for Hollywood stagehands and set crew, almost went on strike a couple of months ago, for the same reasons as many people in this economy have: Unreasonable hours; insufficient pay (especially for L.A.); paltry benefits and support systems as child care; etc. That the actors and directors guilds were supporting their strike vote suggests that the IATSE members need to be better taken care of, and compensated, by the studios.
When I go to movies, I watch the credits up to the point where the entire cast list is shown (including "Guy at Bar"), then I split. If there are extras like a blooper reel, funny "Airplane!"-style credits, or a known post-credit treat like the wedding after "Napoleon Dynamite" or Ferris Bueller telling everyone to go home, I'll stay for the rest.
ReplyDeleteWhen I'm watching a movie on cable or DVR, I'll watch the entire credits. It's fun realizing that a sitcom star got an early role as "Restaurant hostess" in that movie.
I counted the opening credits of a recent Family Guy episode and there were 27 (TWENTY-SEVEN!) people with the word "producer" in their title.
ReplyDeleteOf course credits matter. It is ridiculous to compare them to cereal boxes. Bizarrely, I didn't get credit on several films that I worked on, because in the 90s, studios could get away with leaving people out (non-union). Credits cost money. Hell, one film left the ENTIRE Second Unit out of the credits, and didn't tell us till we had a special screening. You have never seen a more enraged group - 100 of us, who worked for four months in 100+ heat, isolated locations, with period sets and vehicles (including vintage railroad scenes for six weeks).
ReplyDeleteWhich Stallone movie was it?
ReplyDeleteStallone still is in movies that actually are seen by viewers. Poor Bruce Willis has been in so many awful movies the past few years that he has his own category in the Razzie Awards this year: Worst Performance By Bruce Willis In A 2021 Movie. I expect that the last "big" movie that Willis will appear in will be the long-rumoured DIE HARD prequel.
ReplyDeleteAgain, folks, it is "I could NOT care less." It matters.
ReplyDeleteOn another note..."Abbott Elementary" is brilliant. "American Auto" is garbage.
ReplyDeleteYes, "Abbott Elementary" is a redux of "The Office." But I LOVE these characters. Just such brilliant writing, and performances. I knew NOTHING about it, and just binged every episode. It's definitely "Frasier" quality.
ReplyDeleteI WANT to know about these people. Just good stuff.
I watched the movie end credits because I liked the music. One of the nice things about the Internet was I finally found out what the credit Best Boy meant.
ReplyDeleteOk, Ken, your reaction to the Oscar nominations? I know, it doesn't matter any longer. It's NOTHING. It is, what it is. And nobody gives a flying $%#@. "Drive My Car"? I don't care about its qualifications. WHAT?
ReplyDeleteThis has all become...so "weird."
@Joseph Scarbrough
ReplyDeleteOn Laverne & Shirley Penny Marshall got the lower-left credit while Cindy Williams got the upper-right credit, to emphasize that they were equal co-stars. Cheers did the same thing with Ted Danson and Shelley Long.
Republican Brownshirt Marjorie Taylor Greene has accused Nancy Pelosi of running a "gazpacho police."
ReplyDeleteLike I said some time ago, the problem with satire now is that nothing anyone can make up will be as batshit as what Republicans actually say. And that's before we even get to the irony of a neo Nazi not knowing how to say gestapo.
I like to think of the Credits as not only recognition but also as responsibility. I say to myself, "Boy, the sound was lousy. The music overwhelmed the voices." Then I stay to the end to see who did that. To take kent's idea in a different direction, maybe the answer isn't to cut out or speed up the credits on movies and TV shows. Maybe the credits should include a way to contact the people in the credits to either compliment them or complain.
ReplyDeleteAnd maybe teachers and others SHOULD have credits. Again for recognition and responsibility - but mostly, in my mind, for recognition. How to do that best, I'm not sure. That is a whole area of discussion. Teachers write their name on the board the first day of class. Maybe there should be a sign out front with the names of the teachers. And the cafeteria staff and the custodians.
The servers in restaurants have name tags. I like that. Maybe the truck driver's name should be on a placard on the truck. I'd be happy to compliment them when they let me out into traffic. I may not use their name in a complimentary way when they cut me off, though. I got my name in a manual I co-wrote for our company's equipment. I got a complaint because I hadn't put a warning in bold face and a customer complained. It was in bold and in a larger font in the next printing. Feedback works.
Jim Dodd
I never paid attention to closing credits. A few are burned into my memory through sheer repetition. Like "Clothing by Botany 500". Or "In Association with the CBS Television Network". And "Entire Production Supervised By Jackie Gleason". Sadly I just learned Dicker and Dicker of Beverly Hills closed in 2020.
ReplyDeleteNot credits, but I've noticed on a few series recently that on-screen locations are in Giant full-screen font too. So when the action moves to PARIS for example,that word occupies 80% of the screen. Of course, the Eiffel Tower is still in the remaining 20%.
ReplyDeleteI've seen this on Preacher, Killing Eve and at least one other show.
I have been a reader of credits for movies and TV shows, but podcast credits are another matter. When a podcsst has lengthy credits at the end and I can't get to the device or my earbuds to make it stop because my hands are full, it's torture. I realize the irritation I feel is disproportionate, but that's the deal sometimes with pet peeves and petty annoyances. When a podcast finishes with a nod to the producer and director, no problem, but some podcast credits go on and on and on. It's brutal.
ReplyDeleteI know about the various ZAZ-type of funny credits (Arthor of "A Tale of Two Cities"-
ReplyDeleteCharles Dickens) but Monty Python did something funny with their first film, Monty Python and the Holy Grail: They put some sharky comments under the opening titles before the music and credits stopped and said that the people who did that have been sacked before then changing the music and color scheme and did a few more funny ones like saying various animals directed before going to the names of Terry Jones and Terry Gilliam! Also, on the ZAZ-produced series "Police Squad", they spoof the Quinn Martin-announcer type opening sequence and when mentioning the guest star, that star only appears in that scene and dies! And the episode name that's printed is different than the one announced (ANNOUNCER: "Tonight's episode-The Broken Promise" while the printed title is "A Substantial Gift") Then there's those two recent Deadpool movies...
The man who provided the voiceovers on most of the Quinn Martin shows and the announcer on "Police Squad" were one and the same--the late Hank Simms.
DeleteOne of the bottom-of-the-barrel cable networks that runs game shows 24/7 (guess which one) put a policy in place a decade ago that limited end credits to 3 cards max, in a tiny, semi-translucent font.
ReplyDeleteOn one show, my agent and I fought to have my name included. The EP, host, and director were credited, but as the co-EP, I was not. I eventually got my credit, along with loads of grousing from the network that this was “setting a bad precedent.”
Nearly a decade later, I would probably fight just as hard to keep my name off their air.
I've been watching a good bit of MeTV lately (The Andy Griffith Show, Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C., Green Acres). The Sheldon Leonard-produced shows didn't go over the top with credits but still credited everyone at a good font size.
ReplyDeleteThe Sid Caesar show had fun with credits in their movie parodies. On the Docks opens with credits for the gobs of gum chewed by Brando/Caesar: youtu.be/2aTbfEOET_c
ReplyDeleteI've been a consumer of credits for films or TV programs, however podcast credits are a different matter. If a podcast has long credits towards the end, and I'm unable to access your earbuds or the gadget in time to make it stop, because my hands are filled, it's an absolute pain. I know the annoyance that I feel is unjustified and not a good thing, but it happens often with pet peeves and minor annoying things. When a podcast concludes with a salute to the director and producer, it's fine, but credits from the podcast continue endlessly. It's brutal.
ReplyDelete