Wednesday, June 01, 2022

After Shows


I’ve grown to hate After Shows.  These are the equivalent of theatre talk-backs after zeitgeist television series.  Usually they run for a half-hour following the episode.  The intent is to provide background and inside info on the making of the episode and series, but in practically all cases it has evolved in something quite different.

Now it’s just one big love-fest.  Thirty minutes of oozing self congratulations.  Actors, writers, and directors are just fawning over one another, usually moderated by a wide-eyed fanboy host.  

The BETTER CALL SAUL one following its midseason finale was just unwatchable.  Every actor was a genius, every screen moment was handled with such amazing sensitivity and depth.  Those camera angles were phenomenal.  And the words — oh those words.  Meanwhile, as an ardent fan of the show I learned nothing except how monumentally impressed they were with each other and themselves.  

I’ve always been a believer that shows should not be self-congratulatory. It’s way classier when you're not.  Let others praise you.  Don’t praise yourself.  At least not in public.  At wrap parties, sure.  When negotiating new contracts, absolutely.  But don’t create a whole show to take bows for thirty minutes.  

That said, a breakdown of the episode, why certain story directions were chosen, nuggets relating to the difficulty of shooting (e.g. it was 35 degrees the day we shot the swimming pool scene, there was a wardrobe malfunction, etc.), fun anecdotes that happened along the way — fans would eat that up.   Do that and then WE’LL tell you how good you are. 

31 comments :

  1. Have to ask, Ken:

    If you could go back in time, would you have OKed the post-game show for the Cheers finale?

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  2. Maybe it's just me, but I had no idea there are such things as after shows. The closest I knew is Bill Maher's "Overtime" on You Tube after most of his live broadcasts. It was nothing great so I haven't watched one since.

    We went to see Maher live at Television City pre-pandemic once. I was more interested in the history of that particular studio, having been home to Carol Burnett, Red Skelton and many game shows. The pre show activities recognized none of that, save for the Bob Barker plaque on the outside. But I've digressed enough.

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  3. Same goes for DVD commentaries. While some of them do go into technical details, why they used THIS shot instead of ANOTHER shot, explaining something about the movie that I may have missed [indeed, some zombie type movie and the actor providing commentary wondered if anybody noticed how he was shaking with laughter while facing away from the camera. Sure enough, went back and saw what he pointed out.] But some of the commentary does turn intro a lovefest. Commentary for Breaking Bad was absolutely hilarious on some of the DVDs. Others are so boring that I can use them to cure my insomnia. The worst is when there's only ONE guy doing the commentary...director, writer, actor, producer, craft services guy, etc.

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    1. Dick Manatoulin6/01/2022 8:55 AM

      Bobcat Goldthwaite's commentary on the DVD of "World's Greatest Dad" is very funny, indeed.

      Delete
  4. Agreed.

    How about somebody like David Boreanaz saying-"I"m the luckiest son of a bee in the world getting a steady check while I learned to act (as much as he acts)" Or maybe "Thank God we had Cheers/Seinfeld/Law and Order for a lead in"?

    I like the shows I like but I cannot sit and take the time to watch that dreck. Likewise the "directors cut" video where there is two hours of "I wore my green shirt and had a soy latte that morning...."

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    1. Scott Michael Cooling6/01/2022 8:14 AM

      David Boreanaz' Dad, Dave Thomas, was the Buffalo WKBW weather man when I was growing up. He also hosted the early morning kid show Rocketship 7.

      Delete
  5. hmmm, I kinda liked it. What does that say about me?

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  6. N. Zakharenko6/01/2022 8:20 AM

    To Yekemi:

    The problem with DVD commentaries in 2022 (especially Kino Lorber) is that they either have:

    One commentator, who, you know, says "Oh that's ..um.. Ted Danson who of course everybody knows from the movie Ted..."

    Or 2 guys from 2 different generations who ramble on about anything but the movie.
    Where's this filmed you scream in vain? - IMDB won't tell me.

    Rudy Behlmer you are so deeply missed.

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  7. I recommend instead the Better Call Saul Insiders podcast. There they do talk a lot about how they did various things. From one of those, I learned that all those bits of Germany...were digitally added around a house in Albuquerque.

    wg

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  8. I enjoyed "What Just Happened?," a satirical aftershow for a fictional "Lost"-style sci-fi series. (I think it was mostly based on the first successful real aftershow, "Talking Dead.") It only lasted a few episodes and starred Fred Savage (oops), with scenes and "guest actors" from the fake series.

    But in reality, if you want thoughtful discussions of show episodes, I think you'll need to look to podcasts -- though not all of them. Some (such as "Office Ladies") are done really well, while others just consist of actors shooting the breeze for an hour.

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  9. Retired actor: "But enough about me! I'd like to know a little about you ... did you ever see my Hamlet?"

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  10. The Office Ladies podcast is easily one of the best places for inside commentary on a TV show (The Office, of course).

    YouTube has tons of analysis of various TV Series and movies. The only major issue is the copyright police making it tough sometimes to put out material including clips. Though, in one case, a page discussing Looney Tunes (Anthony's Animation Talk) was in the form of commentaries - until the WB lawyers didn't want whole cartoons used. That caused them to shift to review format for most cartoons, allowing more discussion without being a slave to what passes by on screen in too short a time. Rare case where copyright beefs improved videos. Lots of shows: The Office, Fleabag, Community, Succession, Rick & Morty, Breaking Bad, and, yes, Better Call Saul. And more.

    Some sites on YT are better than others, but there are plenty good ones. They often take on various aspects of shows: characters, tropes, thematic elements, etc. Often in-depth, with video lengths varying from 7 minutes to 2 hours.

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  11. I liked The Other Two's after show but it's usually just the writers and cast hanging out and joking around than strictly about the show.

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  12. Some DVD commentary are great for those of us interested in how movies are made. David Cronenberg's commentary on "History of Violence" was like a free master class. I also liked a lot of the "Firefly" commentary including the costume designer. It was fascinating to me to hear how they designed or reused costumes, found the fabric and other details that I had never considered before.
    Kathryn, a librarian

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  13. It's pretty obvious that they are milking and wallowing in their success in every way possible. It's also pretty obvious that the final season could've been 10 episodes and been a tight, compelling story, instead of a bloated ego-fest.
    It's pretty bad if a production by Vince Gilligan does this.

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  14. Now I'm thankful that the AmazonPrime set does not include those after-shows.

    I'd wondered why Ep 608 was not available - "midseason finale" explains that - thanks.

    I paid, without reading the fine print (not there anyway), $24 for the season - $2 more for "hi-def".

    Wonder if they will hit me up for Eps 608-613?

    @Grossman

    Thanks for the tip about those Podcasts.

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  15. Coppola's DVD commentaries are excellent. Tons of "here's how we got that shot," "here's what I was trying to get across in this scene," "this is when we used a double for Robert Duvall in an LA scene because we couldn't afford to fly him and the film crew out there,""your guess is as good as mine where the microphone was hidden in Hackman's apartment in The Conversation." Fascinating stuff (I thought, anyway). The other great DVD commentary is This Is Spinal Tap, where McKean/Guest/Shearer did it in character, pissed off at how bad the "documentary" made them look. I loved it.

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  16. Call Me Mike6/01/2022 2:17 PM

    I enjoyed listening to the BCS podcast for a while, but that too eventually became an annoying pep rally of "this is great, he's great, she's so talented, etc." Yeah, we already knew that. Maybe it's better now, I don't know.

    Anyway yes, save the lovefest for the awards shows, folks.

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  17. Evidently the original "Spinal Tap" commentary was by the actors/writers (not in character) but that DVD is out of print and now an expensive collectors' item.

    Both commentaries would be great!
    Kathryn, a librarian
    PS My brother and I saw "Spinal Tap" when I was age 19 at a midnight showing near a college campus in a theater recently converted back from only showing porn. My parents were shocked that we were going to a movie there. We got them the "Spinal Tap" VHS and later the DVD and now they play it when ever they miss us since we now live far from home.

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  18. Speaking as a musician, the only thing we would after a performance is get wasted as soon as possible, and talk about anything but our show, even if it was great, listen to classic rock or jazz, and just chill out.

    I can't imagine the self-congratulatory shit. That person would probably have to leave.

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  19. HEY! I thought we were supposed to be nice to other commenters! [Although this was sorta funny]

    Deb said...

    Same goes for DVD commentaries. While some of them do go into technical dildos, why they used THIS shot instead of ANOTHER shot, explaining something about the movie that I may have pissed on[indeed, some zombie type movie and the actor providing commentary wondered if anybody noticed how he was shaking his cock while facing away from the camera. Sure enough, went back and saw what he pointed out.] But some of the commentary does turn intro a gang fuck. Commentary for Breaking Bad was absolutely hilarious on some of the DVDs. Others are so boring that I can use them to cure my syphilis. The worst is when there's only ONE guy doing the commentary...director, writer, actor, producer, craft services guy, etc.

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    1. Claudio Maestro6/01/2022 7:09 PM

      "Deb" was Marcus, Dingus and someone else the other day.

      Delete
  20. ScarletNumber6/01/2022 11:05 PM

    @Mibbitmaker

    Even though I'm a fan of The Office I can't stand The Office Ladies. The signal-to-noise ratio is just way too low. Besides, anything half-way interesting eventually makes it to Reddit, then into common lore.

    @Deb

    > While some of them do go into technical dildos

    Wow, this may win the award for Freudian slip of the year!

    ---

    As for Ken's overall point, I wonder if this trend started with Howard Stern. He had an informal wrap-up show on WXRK-FM92.3 in New York when Stuttering John hosted the hour after him, then when he went to Sirius he formalized the concept with The Wrap-Up Show hosted by Jon Hein and Gary Dell'Abate. Opie & Anthony soon followed with one of their own, hosted by one their flunkies, Sam. After O&A crashed and burned, Sam teamed up with their former third Mic Jim Norton to host Jim & Sam.

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  21. I learned how to pronounce Rhea and was disappointed that at no point in the show were they referred to as Bob and Rhea.

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  22. I think I see the premise for one of Ken's new plays.

    M.B.

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  23. As several posters have pointed out, DVD commentary tracks, especially ones with a movie's cast, are often sickening lovefests. Everyone is a "Genius," even the Crafts Foods Services people. A good commentary track can be wonderful. The lovefest ones are a bore.

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  24. I'll admit to watching "Talking Dead," when I was still a viewer of TWD. (I escaped several years ago). My favorite guest was Yvette Nicole Brown. She took it so seriously, and was not a celebrity plant. She TOOK NOTES during the episodes!

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  25. See 'Debs' comment above. Hmmm, a 'technical dildo'? And that would be?

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    1. Gerald Pratley6/03/2022 1:34 PM

      Deb posted under three other phony names, and basically took already posted comments and added nasty/obscene edits. To what end, who knows ?

      Delete
  26. Spike de Beauvoir6/04/2022 6:33 PM

    It's been a while since I watched DVDs of Seinfeld, but I thought the interviews and commentaries were well produced and very informative. A lot of writers of specific episodes offered details on their ideas, pitches, and working with the cast. Interesting to find out that Peter Mehlman had an affinity for writing dialogue for Elaine.

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  27. Marc Evan Jackson hosted The Good Place podcast. Lots of behind the scenes tidbits, he makes it a point to have the rotating guests be either actors, writers, costume/set designers, etc, so you get a variety of viewpoints. Great show, great podcast. It started between seasons 2 and 3 of the show, so I don't remember if there are spoilers for the first 2 seasons from the beginning or not. Either way, I think he announces the rules about spoilers early on.

    ReplyDelete

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