Patrick Wahl leads off.
Lots of questions about producer credits. There are Executive Producers and Producers. Does either one rate higher than the other in the producer pecking order?
The highest position is Executive Producer. There may be multiple Executive Producers but generally only one or one team is considered the “show runner.” Ironically, there’s no credit for that.
After that the general order from highest importance to lowest is:
Co-Executive Producer
Supervising Producer
Consulting Producer
Producer
Co-Producer
Below that are staff level jobs, now often relegated to end credits.
But make no mistake, those roles are being filled either by writers or non-writing pod producers.
You’ll also see a “Produced by” credit. That’s for the line producer – the person really in charge of mounting the production. He/she hires the crew, oversees budgets, post production, and basically is the one producer who actually produces things.
From David (not my partner):
What do you think the odds are that there'll be another writer's strike in the next year or two?
There’s always that possibility, but let’s be real. Management dictates that. If they lay out proposals that are untenable like cutting back on health insurance or not sharing in streaming income then the WGA has no choice. If management wants to avoid a work stoppage and make a deal then a deal is struck.
Meanwhile, let’s see how this battle with major talent agencies plays out.
And finally, from Jeri:
I wonder about the people that get series announced at upfronts as a midseason premiere and then every year some of those don't see the light of day. Have you ever worked on a pilot or show that was a mid season replacement that didn't end up airing?
David Isaacs and I were supposed to write an episode for an NBC series called SNIP starring David Brenner. 13 episodes had been ordered and I believe it was even on the NBC fall schedule. But they cancelled it. Not sure if some episodes were filmed. I suspect they were and the network so hated them they just shelved the whole thing.
But there are examples of six to thirteen episodes of a show in the can that were so apparently un-releasable that the network was willing to just eat the money.
There have also been shows that got cancelled after one airing, even though more episodes were already shot. Two that spring to mind are PUBLIC MORALS and EMILY’S REASONS WHY NOT.
In terms of getting paid, it depends on the deals the actors and writers made with the studio. Were they to be paid for all episodes ordered (even if the show is then cancelled) or only for the episodes that were produced? If the latter, they got screwed.
Happy Flag Day. On this date many years ago I enlisted in the Army Reserves.
Ken - loved the podcast about selling the Jeffersons script. Would love to see your original draft. Have you ever made it public? How about the spec scripts you wrote, too? MTM?
ReplyDeleteSnip was even in TV Guide's fall preview issue - but it got pulled at the absolute last minute. David Brenner was quoted later as saying NBC got cold feet about having a gay character in the show. Five episodes were apparently filmed and aired in Australia - too late to get royalties?
ReplyDeletehttps://theundergroundmultiplex.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/davidbrennersnip3.jpg
This is a entry from Wikipedia:
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snip_(TV_series)
The A.V. Club also has an article called The Unseen: 24 TV Shows produced but never properly aired.
It sounds like an interesting premise (especially for the 70s) but I'm not sure that it would have done well with James Komack at the helm. It sort of reminds me more of a Susan Harris type of show...without that horrible name though.
Ken, that you for your service.
ReplyDeleteMr. Levine:
ReplyDeleteYou are absolutely correct about "Snip" (with David Brenner and Lesley Ann Warren) being on the fall schedule for the 1976-1977 season. As I recall, TV Guide even ran a closeup on the series in its Fall Preview edition. And I think (I could be wrong) that it was slated to run on Thursdays at 9:30 p.m.
NBC also did run promos for it. I was audiotaping favorite sitcoms during the summer and one of those was "The Practice," with Danny Thomas. I have a tape where, during the ending credits crawl (remember those?), an announcer invoked viewers to "curl up with Snip" this fall.
Would love to see at least one episode.
Happy Flag Day!!!
Not only was SNIP on the 1976 NBC Fall Schedule, but 7 episodes were shot. The 5 that were completed were shown in Australia.
ReplyDeleteMark Evanier's post on David Brenner's death includes a plausible explanation for the disappearance of SNIP:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.newsfromme.com/2014/03/15/david-brenner-r-p/
For those who do not want to click: Basically, the story is that the show was awful, and was clearly doomed. Brenner had a contract with NBC, and was able to convince the powers that be that his value to the network would be diminished if that bomb was allowed to go off.
To add to ScarletNumber's post, "Public Morals" aired in the United Kingdom. I think they ran all the filmed episodes. My wife saw the one episode that aired in the United States and said, "You have GOT to watch this next week", because she couldn't believe how awful it was.
ReplyDeleteNeedless to say, I didn't get the chance until years later, when it showed up on YouTube.
She was right, by the way.
I should hasten to add, that one and done does not necessarily mean bad.
ReplyDelete"Dear Diary" was an unsold pilot, but it was released as a theatrical short and wound up with an Oscar!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Va3ieBdQjaU
Why do actors still want a producer credit? Assume that by now just about everyone knows it is a vanity thing or a sop for taking less money than they want. Isn’t it now just embarrassing to have the credit? So I guess now they will climb that ladder of importance you listed without really doing anything.
ReplyDeleteI always figured 'Consulting Producer' was a special case - not necessarily ranking below 'Supervising' - since it's usually only given to former EPs or Co-EPs who are still contributing in some shape and form to a show, but are also committed to other projects. But still more of a contributor than 'Executive Consultant' (a title that I haven't seen in years).
ReplyDeleteAnd recently I've learned about the 'Co-Supervising Producer' credit, while listening to the Children of Tendu podcast. Two former Star Trek writer-producers were assigned that particular credit since their showrunner didn't want to promote them too quickly and have to share the executive producer title with others. That actually happened in both VOYAGER and DS9 during the 1990's.
Writers strikes seem to happen at the drop of a hat anymore.
ReplyDeleteHi Ken -
ReplyDeleteWhy isn't there a Cheers episode titled "Bar Wars IV"?
As always, Ken, enjoying your blog and podcasts even if I don't stop to comment much. Or--appreciate you, sir! Thank you.
ReplyDeleteA question: Now that you're doing your plays do you try to write to deadline, or is it more of a "whenever it's done, it's done" kind of thing? Would you encourage young writers to set self-imposed deadlines?
Thanks again, Keith
I've opened up my TV Guide 1976-77 Fall Preview, and SNIP is there with a picture of David Brenner, along with a list of some of his costars. The most interesting of them to me was Hope Summers, who'd played a close friend of Aunt Bee's on Andy Griffith's show, as his ex-wife's aunt. This show isn't shown on the fall schedule, also in the magazine pages, though, as NBC lists 3 hour-long shows on Thursday nights there. There is a box on top of the first page of the tv listings stating that NBC had removed SNIP and another show, GIBBSVILLE, from its fall schedule, though GIBBSVILLE did eventually appear for 6 weeks starting that November.
ReplyDeleteOn YouTube there is an interview that Tom Snyder did w/ Brenner that fall. The interview has clips of show rehearsals and a bit of the actual show. In the interview Brenner states that while he'd like the show to succeed, he doesn't need it, as his stand-up career was going great. He speculated that the show would go on the air around the next January, but as we know, it never did.
@FFS
ReplyDeleteYou are assuming that actors have any sense of dignity.
Friday Question: What is your opinion of the trend of TV baseball announcers that spend an inordinate amount of time talking about subjects that have nothing to do with the game they are purporting broadcasting. I'm not talking about Vin Scully's interesting tidbits of information that he used to fill in between pitches, or Harry Carey's sometimes humorous tangential expositions about restaurants in a visiting city. I'm thinking about whole innings that seem to be devoted to a detailed presentation on some baseball subject, such as the future of some pitcher who is not starting this game or some long term trade strategy. The entire discussion seems to be pre-planned since it is often supplemented with numerous prepared graphics and backup research. Meanwhile, the action on the field is generally ignored by the announcers, no matter how interesting it may be. The worst situations occur when there is a guest in the booth, or when one of the players or the manager is being interviewed remotely from the dugout. Obviously, I am not a fan of this as I want to focus on the game I am tuned in to watch.
ReplyDeleteKen, On this flag day I watched Cornel Wilde's "Beach Red" with Bill Dunbar who was in the 222nd P.I.D. (Radio) USAR at the same time as you and I were!
ReplyDeleteOn the non-writing side, producer titles can be especially nebulous because they're so often used as "attaboys" with some staffers. An editor who works particularly hard and comes through in the clutch may be given an Associate Producer title as a reward. A Unit Production Manager who is especially good -- but thinking about leaving for a new job -- may be coaxed into staying by being named a Co-Producer. In both cases, the actual duties didn't necessarily change, just the prestige.
ReplyDeleteFriday question:
ReplyDeleteWhen a bunch of people in a scene yell a word (like all the patrons yelling "Norm!") do they all get paid for a speaking part and get into the acting union?
A conflicting theory on the demise of Snip, courtesy of Mark Evanier (who wrote a nice, brief obituary about Brenner in 2014):
ReplyDeletehttps://www.newsfromme.com/2014/03/15/david-brenner-r-p/
My (admittedly incomplete) understanding of "job titles" in credit crawls:
ReplyDeleteThe main reason for all the "producers" on series is a rationale for payment or compensation.
One example to serve for many:
When ABC wanted to revive Columbo as part of its new Mystery Movie wheel, accommodations had to be reached with William Link, the surviving creator of the character.
In Link's case, the accommodations included an ornamental title on all the other elements of the wheel (Supervising Executive Consultant, I think it was - correction welcomed if needed).
When you check the credits of many long-running series, you often find increasingly elaborate titles for people who are long gone from actual participation in the production.
I'm fairly sure that few people begrudge those who take these titles - it's just another way of being paid for their past work, something for the bookkeepers to put on paper.
All part of the game, as it were.
Okay, so what was SNIP about was supposedly so awful?
ReplyDeleteI do remember watching the one episode of "Turned On" back in the late 1960s. Only thing I remember about it was Robert Culp and his wife were on it. The story goes it was so offensive that ABC decided to cancel it even before the West Coast feed played. I think one station in the mid-west didn't even return to it after the first commercial break!
ReplyDeleteKen, this is an off-topic comment but on something you have mentioned here several times in the past. In case you don't know, Rich Bro Radio has no stream right now as StreamLicensing that he was using for his player and licensing pulled the plug on its service today without telling anybody in advance. If you are in contact with him, please allow me to suggest that he move to Live365.
ReplyDeleteRichBroRadio IS on Live365 and itunes. It's up and running. I'm listening right now.
ReplyDeleteRegarding actors getting producer credits, does the credit make them eligible for emmys, or even royalties down the road?
ReplyDeleteHi Ken
ReplyDeleteNot a question
As I have said I have been reading backwards through your blog.
But purely out of thanks on a humour level, I got to your early post about a musical/drama series that was killed off after a couple of episodes.
You said it beat "Cop Rock"
So I googled video cop rock.
It has to be up there in cringiest things my eyes have witnessed
It is like...Who would think this would work...seriously
Seriously. The extras earned their money that day. How they could keep a straight face amazes me.
See below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLm5Sn1cMyQ
Friday Question: Whenever I see David Hyde Pierce photographed in public, he's always wearing glasses, yet he never seems to wear glasses when in character. On Frasier, did he wear contact lenses during filming, or is his vision decent enough that he could get by without them?
ReplyDelete