Wednesday, November 09, 2016

No post today

For the first time in eleven years I am not posting anything today.  I am too stunned, terrified, appalled, and furious.   I never thought the day would come when I would be ashamed to be an American. Perhaps tomorrow I will be back posting.  In times of extreme crisis we need our diversions.  And laughter.   But today, this moment, I find nothing funny, nothing hopeful.  Nothing more to say. 


B.A. said...

Even God is uneasy
Say the moist bells of Swansea
They will plunder willy-nilly
Say the bells of Caerphilly

Unknown said...

Hold tight Ken - it will all be OK.

Mark--> said...

Well said.

Unknown said...

I started by reading the newspaper this morning. I do every morning, but thought I should see how long I can avoid reality. Thanks for your post yesterday, and your twits last night. Well at least I don't have to listen to people go on about buying guns to feel safe, things are going to be great again

Jake said...


Peter said...

Ken, I'm as depressed as you are today, but I try and always be optimistic even in times of despair like this. So I'd like to strike a note of caution so that people don't fear for the future.

Yes, Trump is a scumbag, a liar, a misogynist, a sociopath, but he also loves being Donald Trump and being rich, and that means whatever else he may be he's not suicidal. It's not like he's going to take office and on the first day start a nuclear war. If anything, he's probably going to be isolationist.

Second, America still has a system of checks and balances. Even if Trump was to suddenly go wacko - OK, MORE so - then there's a whole structure in place to stop him. Remember, the majority of mainstream Republicans HATE Trump. It's not like he was carried on a throne at the RNC. As someone posted yesterday, he will most likely be ineffectual rather than destructive.

Third, Trump kept complaining that the media were against him. Well, even if true, it means all eyes will be on him and every move he makes. He's only one man and the United States are bigger than any one man. He WILL be held accountable for what he does.

Lastly, there are ongoing investigations into him and his past conduct. It would be sweet karma if, after everything he said about Hillary, he gets arrested in office.

So yes, let's hold our heads in despair today. But the USA and the world has survived Nixon and W Bush. It can also survive this idiot. Personally, I don't think he'll even see out a full term. He'll most likely get impeached, arrested or forced to resign within the first couple of years. And that's if someone doesn't try to assassinate him first.

To cheer everyone up, here's a quote from one of the Bar Wars episodes of Cheers:

Dr. Frasier Crane: As that famous prankster Santayana once said, "Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it".

Woody Boyd: You got that right, Dr. Crane. Back in high school, I was condemned to repeat History three times. By the way, the same goes for Mathematics.

Unknown said...

I fit the profile of his supporters, white, old live in small town of 100 people in Indiana, Best for me to keep reading about how policy works, at least for my own knowledge. Can't say enough bad things, or at least add to what's true about the guy. Mainly interested now in how did we get into this mess. Was thinking I would be saying that after being relieved he was out of news, now have to dig even deeper into how.

Unknown said...

And again thanks for being both smart and funny.

Roger Owen Green said...

Demoralizing. Others have this "we need to buckle down and fight back." Well maybe later, but I'm not there yet. By any stretch.

normadesmond said...

no comment today.

normadesmond said...

on second thought, i do have a post.

On November 9 to November 10, 1938, in an incident
known as “Kristallnacht”, Nazis in Germany torched synagogues,
vandalized Jewish homes, schools and businesses and killed close to 100 Jews.

Stephen Marks said...

Stephen: Listen Ken, why don't you just settle down for five minutes? I know what you're trying to do, and I know how you feel.

Ken: No you don't.

Stephen: You don't want to have time to think about what might happen to you.

Ken: That's not it. Sure, when Trump walks into that Oval Office in January I hope to God I'll have my sense of humor back. But in the meantime, this crazy election has taken on another meaning.

Stephen: How?

Ken: One part of the world closed down for me, but another part opened up. Sure I'm seeing myself sitting on a corner with a tin cup selling Trump jokes. But things are happening that take me away from that. This morning I spent two incredible hours listening to a rainstorm. I didn't just hear it, I was part of it. I bet you never realized that the sound of rain hitting the ground makes the same noise as steaks when they barbeque, or that thunder seems to echo forever. And you can't believe how funny it is to hear someone slip and fall in the mud. Had to be Trump. Stephen, it's full of trapdoors, but I think I'm going to use not posting for the first time in 11 years to my advantage. I bet I'll never spend a more conscious day in my life.

Stephanie said...

I agree with you and all I keep reminding myself is love trumps hate. I also wish I hadn't given up drinking.

Dan Wolfe said...

My high school history instructor at Valley Forge Military Academy, one Air Force Colonel George Rickert, drilled into us that the collection of minds that created the Constitution of the United States was the single greatest collection of minds ever assembled and that even in the midst of the compromises that were necessary to create it, the product of their work would stand the test of time because of those great minds.

I agree. So much so that I and millions of other veterans -- even you, Ken as a former member of the fighting 222nd -- have sworn to support and defend it. It’s the one thing that gives me hope in the aftermath of this election. Yes, we’ve been pissing in each others’ lunch boxes for nearly two years’ worth of run-up to this election, but in the end, the checks and balances created by that greatest collection of minds will keep things from imploding. The Constitution and its authors created a system of government which is highly resilient — resilient enough to handle whatever comes of this Nation and no matter who winds up in the White House in January.

The Nation has made its choice. Perhaps reluctantly, but we chose. And while we have failed as a Nation to uphold our responsibility to be a well informed electorate, while our political parties have failed to provide us with the best, brightest and truly inspirational leaders, and while our Fourth Estate has failed to act as an objective check on American politics, we will survive this. The United States of America will be just fine, thank you very much.

The road to excellence in politics is bumpy right now but the GPS was set in 1789 by people who really knew what they were doing. They had faith in the future of the Nation and I have faith in what they created.

I hope that their faith is us is warranted.

kim tenhor said...

I know how you feel. I really wanted to stay in bed this morning curled up in a ball but forced myself out of bed and to work. Everyone at the office is very glum.

Wendy M. Grossman said...

The only thing I can think of to say is to quote Lee Hays, member of The Weavers, who said in a documentary made about them late in his life, I think about Reagan: "This, too, will pass. I've had kidneey stones, and I know."


Anonymous said...

“Clinton wins the college-educated segment by 25 percentage points, while Trump’s edge among those without a college education is 10 points.”

Matt said...

Great post Ken :)

Cheer up, you still have a great life, wonderful children, a budding playwrite career and the best blog on the internet. And the Dodgers are pretty competitive.

I think you are going to find out how little the President effects your everyday life.

Kamineni said...

Cmon Ken.
Miley Cyrus is leaving the country, so are Amy Schumer and Chelsea Handler.
Lena Dunham and Amber Rose and Al Sharpton.
Tough to lose Sam Jackson and Bryan Cranston, but Breaking Bad is done.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Kirk said...

I feel sick to my stomach.

Johnny Walker said...

I've always considered America to be my spiritual home, but for the first time ever in my life, I'm glad I don't live there.

I'm sorry to all stunned Americans out there. I'd say, as Brexit was for us in the U.K., it's time to stop and really figure out how it came to this terrible conclusion. And how to really engage with those people who were scared, desperate or frustrated enough to put us here.

All over the world, we're all still feeling the fallout from 2008, but so many people seem to blame the current President, without realising he had nothing to do with the current situation except to try and make things better in a situation where he had little control.

There's no way Trump can solve the problems that began in 2008 during his term, just like Brexit isn't going to solve them for us. The fallout in 2008 was predicted to last 15 years, and that still looks about right.

It's a shame that in times of crisis its human nature to cling to fear instead of hope. Maybe one day we'll have a different reaction. Until then, let's hope this is an experience that ultimately makes the world better... a lesson that will last generations. God help us all.

Rory Wohl said...

This morning, I awoke to an America I do not recognize. An America that has rejected the words inscribed in the Declaration of Independence, in the Constitution, and upon the Statue of Liberty. An America that has rejected "Love thy neighbor" in favor of "I'll get mine." In this America, I am afraid.

RyderDA said...

I feel for your pain -- and I'm Canadian. Cross your fingers, and keep them crossed for a while.

JR Smith said...


Corey said...

Nahum Ish Gamzu and Rabbi Akiba were both men of endless faith in the Almighty. They were certain that anything that happened to them was good. How did they know it? Simply enough. They knew that nothing happens by accident or chance; that nothing happens without G‑d knowing it. Now G‑d is good, therefore, how can anything bad happen?
Any help?

Corey said...

Just saying...
There have been 22 elections since the S&P 500
Index began. In these election years:
• 18 of the 22 years (82%) provided positive
• When a Democrat was in office and a new
Democrat was elected, the total return for the
year averaged 11.0%
• When a Democrat was in office and a
Republican was elected, the total return for the
year averaged 13.2%

Erich617 said...

I have a question that has been weighing on my mind for a while now. Based on your posts of the past two days, I thought that I might put it out there for you because I admire you as a writer and entertainer.

Like you, I am a Democrat and have worked in entertainment (we have met once or twice). I too am concerned about what a Trump presidency will mean (I spent over 20 hours doing get-out-the-vote work for Clinton in the last week of the election, so that is not hot air). However, I have also been reading the writing on the wall for a while, and I am--frankly--not shocked by the Trump victory. What I think it did was give people one of the more equitable ways of expressing their opinions. Yes, rural states are weighted more heavily by the electoral college, but not by that much, and I would say that they are excluded from the national conversation enough of the time that this is their chance to exercise their influence.

My question is about what I see as the disconnect between the entertainment industry and the general public (I think other elite sectors are probably having this conversation too). Ultimately, my goal as an entertainer is to entertain people. But the industry has become increasingly vocal about politics, and I wonder if it is alienating the audience. Several stories were written before the election about late night television becoming far more opinionated than in the past, and I see it in some of my favorite TV shows as well. The Los Angeles Times ran a feature about which celebrities supported which candidate, and Clinton blew Trump out of the water.

However, domestic viewership is dropping (both film and television). That may be attributable to a larger variety of platforms and programming, but is it possible that the industry is not just out of touch with the people they are supposed to entertain but actively driving them away? Sure, Lena Dunham campaigned for Clinton, but--as you have pointed out--GIRLS gets well under a million viewers, which is such a small fraction of the population that it's inconsequential in any other way.

I really appreciate the post that you wrote yesterday because you acknowledged that this is an entertainment blog, that you hadn't said anything about the past two presidential elections, and that this was a special case. That's not the stance most entertainers take, though. (Remember when Ron Howard and Henry Winkler made a video in 2008 because they said it was the most important election of our lifetimes?) Do you see this as a referendum on the role of our sector?

VP81955 said...

Welcome to bizarro America, gang.

I did not vote for Hillary Clinton (being a Californian, it electorally was moot), but the republic will survive. Bernie Sanders, a true progressive populist, would have beaten Trump -- but the corporate coastal Democrats wanted nothing to do with him.

We Dems have to go in a different direction for 2020. No more family dynasties, no more damn Ivy League lawyers. If Wall Street, Silicon Valley and Hollywood don't want that, tough.

Matt said...

The good news is that Lisa Simpson will be our next president. It has been foretold.

And the weird part is that in 4 years, Lisa will be 35.

Gary said...

To Matt, who believes the President has little effect on peoples' everyday lives, just watch as the Republicans go after destroying Medicare, Social Security and Obamacare, along with cutting taxes on the rich. Oh, and also getting us into a new war, just because.

Ed said...

I'm still going to count this as a post so your streak is still alive in my book...unless for symbolic reasons you want it broken on this date then, as a fan, I'll going along with your wishes.

We probably don't share many of the same political views. And it's safe to say that we probably have never voted the same way for a Presidential candidate...until Nov. 8, 2016.

My first vote and support ever for a Democrat Party nominee was for many of the reasons you stated on your Tuesday post. That post didn't impact my decision - I came to those conclusions in the late spring / early about Trump.

I don't get it, either. I feel a great many people have been duped.

Our system of government provides plenty of protections from a rouge President. I'm not sure Trump understands that. During the primary debates, I was waiting for any one of the 16 other Republicans running for the office to say: "I'm yielding my time to give Donald Trump two minutes to explain how a bill becomes a law, because I'm willing to gamble on the fact that he doesn't." None of them had the courage to do that nor push back hard enough to beat him. He should have never been the nominee.

Mr. Levine, when the time comes for when you're ready to be insightful, a storyteller and funny - I'll look forward to your return. A great many others will fact, we're going to NEED that in our lives.

JED said...

I did not vote for Trump. I voted for Clinton as did my state. But I have to look at what happened as a wake-up call. The people who voted for Mr. Trump did so thinking he would make changes that would help them. Many of them responded to the lies he spread but I think many of them feel they have been left out the progress our country has made over the last eight years. They feel that while they have lost their jobs, been ridiculed for their beliefs and have not gotten the media's attention for their problems, many of us have done better. I look at them as people who are desperate enough to have attempted suicide because it's the only way out of their problems. We have not seen their hurt and their anger and need to keep our hearts and minds open to their needs, too. We've abandoned them in the same way we've ignored "troublesome" kids who join a gang because the gang welcomed them while the "good" people ignored them. If we had included them in our good fortune, they wouldn't have had to look to an outsider to help them. The pollsters and media ignored them, too, and that's why we didn't see this coming.

A hard time is coming but there is something we can do about it. We can do what is right and not what the other side would have done if Ms. Clinton had won. We can continue to do all we can to improve our country and hopefully include more people in the progress.

Jason said...

"Anonymous said...
Maybe you should consider nominating a candidate who knows how to use a computer and passwords."

Wow, Ken is so upset he isn't even deleting the posts from Anonymous scumbag trolls.

Experience? Qualification? Irrelevant as long as wikileaks is around to rig the elections. Trump did warn us it was RIGGED. He was pretty sure about it. And I guess he should know.


It's a sad day, but at least we now have a better sense of how many people in this country are ignorant, bigots, or ignorant bigots. It's a lot, but they were always there, just hiding quietly. Now we know.

Anonymous said...

Hey Ken,

NOT a Clinton fan, not a Trump fan either but I say this to myself all the time:

A man can be destroyed, he can never be defeated- Hemingway

Boomska316 said...

Not that I have any love for Trump, but don't you all are overreacting just a tad?

Anonymous said...

Yep me too. Had an actual anxiety attack last night if you can believe that. Turned the TV off and went to bed. Woke up hoping it was all a bad dream. There really are no words. Hugs. Janice B.

Peter said...

Funniest tweet on this today:

"America going from Obama to Trump is the worst transition from black to white since Michael Jackson."

Jeff Maxwell said...

Two guys go into a bar sit next on either side of a woman. One guy is in a nice pale blue sweater. The other guy, a bit more muscled up, is in a T shirt and leather vest revealing densely tattooed arms and neck. He's scampish and obnoxious to the bartender and to the woman. The other fellow is polite, smart, wise and respectful. If the woman is not careful, she's going home with the bad boy.

Our country went home with the bad boy.

Some bad boys grow up. I hope ours does.

Buttermilk Sky said...

The next time you see Susan Sarandon, give her a good hard smack in the face for me, OK?

Joe C said...

Wasn't this a "post"? Just sayin'

Brian O. said...

Maybe Fox will bring back WHOOPS! as a cautionary tale.

Melissa Hinton said...

Feeling sad, ashamed ... empty.

Saburo said...

Please bring back the funny ASAP. Trying to suppress what I assume was a mini panic attack that began on Tuesday afternoon...

Anonymous said...

Jason said "Wow, Ken is so upset he isn't even deleting the posts from Anonymous scumbag trolls."

Way to start the healing.

Wendy M. Grossman said...

normadesmond: I happen to be in Berlin this week, so I can tell you that krystallnacht has been referenced multiple times at the events I've attended.

*HOwever*, November 9, 1989 is (also) the date the Wall came down. It is a date with much resonance in this city, both good and bad.


norm said...

Sorry you feel this way, but this GREAT country has withstood worse and it will be able to overcome your doubts.

fred said...

Silver lining is republicans don't like this piece of crap either. So it may be hard for him to get anything done...

Salman said...

Hey, wait a minute, you DID post something today!

jcs said...

A view from Europe: Russia is doing a lot of saber-rattling these days. After land grabs in Georgia and Ukraine by Russia over the past few years several Eastern European countries such as the Baltic states are fearing that they'll be next. Russia's military challenges European airspace and Russian warplanes perform dangerous fly-overs when US warships are in sight. Russia also backs the Syrian dictatorial regime. Currently the US is beefing up its military presence in Central Europe to counter these threats in partnership with European NATO members. Destabilising Nato, as Trump suggested many times in the past, will have dire consequences for the security and economic stability in Europe and North America.

I understand that the average white noncollege-educated man in the rural parts of the US probably does not think a lot about such issues. There was no way, however, that any US voter could have come to the conclusion that the incoming president is intellectually equipped to comprehend this type of problem.

Jonathan Price said...

Sigh. Typical America. To quote Ken Levine on Brexit: "there must be something in the water."

Joe Blow said...

Establishment politicians have no one to blame but themselves. The message this vote gives is "ANYONE, but a member of the status quo, which has given us:
Infant mortality worse than any European country, Israel, Japan, Australia and many others (we are 27th)
Healthcare and medication so expensive that many people die for lack of it or go blind (Glaucoma drops $180 for 1ml)
Health Insurance completely unaffordable
Student loans so overwhelming, the lives of young people are RUINED before they start (total student debt over a TRILLION $)
College tuition $10,000 to $100,000 a year
Wages stagnant for 30 years while housing costs skyrocket
Complete absence of pension programs at most businesses; no one earns enough to save for old age
Social Security completely inadequate to live on and not increasing
And on and on and on
The future will be much worse. Most current seniors have some type of pension to supplement SS
They will find that TRUMP IS NOT THE ANSWER, unfortunately. Trump will take care of TRUMP.
But, as others have said, he will not be able to do anymore with the gridlock than anyone else. He will be completely ineffective and won't be allowed to do anything too crazy.

Bob said...

First, I will acknowledge that Trump is a massive d-bag. How he managed to get elected President is a historic moment that will be explained by many, but always will defy explanation. Kind of like a Kennedy assassination for the 21st Century.

We know a lot of things about Trump, but there are aspects to him that are unpredictable. That's about as hopeful as I can get for now.

I will note that whichever candidate won this election, the Country would still be in a world of hurt. At least now, everyone will be paying a lot more attention. Hopefully.

One more thing to add, to commentor Norm, who said this is a GREAT country. Let me quote a prominent national leader, one that is somewhat new to the scene: WRONG

P.S. Despair is not a solution. This is a freaking wake up call.

sanford said...

I doubt if any of the people mentioned above are leaving the country, although they can certainly afford to live else where. Meanwhile here are two good articles explaining what happened and why people voted for Trump.

Peter said...

Cheer up, people! On the bright side, California has voted to legalize recreational marijuana.

Snoskred said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Steve Lanzi (formerly known as qdpsteve) said...

Just to say, I like the comments above from Jeff Maxwell and Wendy Grossman's 11:55.

And sanford, that article from Glenn Greenwald is pretty good. I love that GG is willing to hold his own party's feet to the fire, just as much as he does to the Republicans'.

DrBOP said...

I'm not sure if the Drumpfster is fully aware yet that he's going to be living in a smaller house...... in a black neighborhood.

John said...

I fear for all my US friends and family members, especially those who are women, people of of color, with different sexualities, and intellectuals. It's going to be open season on all of them. I cried on waking up this morning, and I am still shaken, but I have work to do, so my wife helped pull me together, thankfully. Even if we somehow lose Trump - maybe due to indictment or impeachment - we still have to contend with Pence, a man who denies evolution and is a true religious zealot. I'm honestly not sure we will get through these next four years without a great number of deaths, of one kind or another.

That said, had Hillary won, the armed bigots would probably have started an insurrection, causing a great deal of harm as well. Even so, that would probably have been preferable.

DrBOP said...

I'm not sure if the Drumpfster is aware that he's going to be living in a smaller a black neighborhood.

Charles H. Bryan said...

Ken, I know how you feel, with one exception - I do still feel hopeful, because this is a president who will inspire people to fight against him. IT's perfect hope. It's not brimming with confidence. But he personifies almost everything that many Americans can't stand, and will give them a target towards which they can aim their indignation.

Sometimes we need a Pearl Harbor before we fight and win a war.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure Trump will find jobs for the people he promised in Ohio and West Verging who lost them to closing of the steal mills and coal mines by giving them work on the great border wall that Mexico is going to pay for.

Mike said...

What Gridlock? Republicans have the Presidency, House, Senate and, in time, the Supreme Court. Trump may revert from populist to neoliberal to fit in.

Mike Barer said...

The State Of Washington stayed blue.

Pete Zucker said...

It's bad enough that we have the DTs, but hell, Giuliana will most likely be in the mix, too. Cannot stand his voice and superior attitude. Throw in Christie and "It's a mad house! A mad house!"

Kamineni said...

Joe Blow, your numbers can't be right since there are more than 27 countries in Europe.

JCS, it doesn't take a lot of intellectual equipment to realize that Russia has nukes, and that you shouldn't be threatening to shoot down their planes.

Tammy said...

The only thing scarier than Trump being president is that so many Americans find him deserving of the position. I imagine most of them aren't racist and sexist themselves, but they apparently don't mind it in others, which is almost as bad.

I feel for you, America. Going from a guy so intelligent, competent and classy to...that.

Zappa the Unholy said...

Right there with you bro. Everyone who says "Eh.. it'll be fine." They apparently slept through history class.

Stan the Man said...

I've given myself a day to think about this crap.

It is semi-weird, but the fact that Trump is a bit of an enigma (in terms of actual policies) and also completely unpredictable can give a person a bit (just a bit) of hope. But you can be fearful for those same reasons.

As to why/how he got elected, I think it is very complex. Certainly there is the racist vote. And the anti-Hillary vote. The mindless let's make America Great morons. One group I have read about in the past day are white people who are in such despair (mostly due to economic factors) that they no longer give a #%$&, and think the only solution is to "hit the reset button". As if there was such a thing... (a reset button)

Another (small) reason for hope. The Country can't be run as a dictatorship. At least not yet. What concerns me is a crisis, real or manufactured, that allows the idiot to have free reign at the controls of a careening bus. Can you say 911?

Since many people say Putin's main intent in all this is to create disruption, for the sake of disruption, I think the real danger in the next couple of years is just that kind of event/crisis occurring, and the subsequent moronic reaction (That the reaction would be moronic is pretty much a certainty, in my opinion).

"In a democracy, people get the government they deserve." This quote is attributed to some obscure French nobleman, railing against the forces that were brewing the French Revolution. Not the best motives for the quote, but it does not detract from the truth of the statement. Are we a nation of substandard racist morons?

I very much agree with a couple of prior posts. This is a time for vigilance and action. Not despair. An actual test of our National character. Holy crap.

As some Chinese guy said, May you be cursed to live in interesting times.

Ralph C. said...

Wow...Ken said all that to you, Stephen? Why didn't he just post that instead of what he did post. When you're over his house again please tell him Ralph said hello. Thank you.

-bee said...

Thank you for speaking truth, Ken. Trying to slap a 'no biggie' on this is is to live in denial.

Peter said...

Well, I don't know what to say to all of you who are in genuine despair. I wish I had words of comfort and encouragement.

But I'd like to suggest that once the emotions calm down a little, that you do your best to find some actual Trump voters, and talk to them. Don't write them off, don't act like you're superior, don't presume anything about them. Ask them to explain their perspective, and do your best to listen. See if you can find common ground. See if you can empathize.

When I was a teenager I heard one of the most powerful speeches in my life. "There is despair, Mr. President, in the faces that you don't see, in the places that you don't visit in your shining city." That was Gov. Cuomo, talking about the Reagan administration. But the reverse has become true. Now it's the Democrats who have become the party of detachment from regular people. The contempt for the "bigoted" and "uneducated" and "morons" is obvious and palpable. You can read it in the comments to this post.

Dear liberals, Democrats, and progressives, please, go to places you don't ordinarily visit. Find the faces that you don't normally see. Talk to people you don't regularly talk to. And listen to them. Try not to roll your eyes, or smirk, or consider the person "uneducated." (So what if he or she is?) Find out what's driving them. Find out what concerns them. They are not inferior to you. They are your fellow Americans, your fellow citizens.

And examine your own bigotries. What do you really believe about Catholics, or evangelicals? What do you know about them? What do you think about rural people, like the farmers and coal miners who used to be Democrats? And here's a hint: If you use the word "white" as a put-down or a pejorative, then that is a form of bigotry.

If you truly believe in open-mindedness and tolerance and diversity, can you make room for the people you look down on as closed-minded and uneducated and unsophisticated? Their lives matter too.

I sincerely with the best for all of you, and I hope that time brings healing to your wounds and fears. But use this as a season for reflection and introspection. If you can't understand why people would choose Trump over Clinton, then you just haven't been paying attention to the real world. To make it more personal: We are not as stupid as you think.

May God bless you all.

Justin Russo said...

This is worse than CRASH winning Best Picture.

Peter said...

Oops. "I sincerely wish the best for all of you," not "with the best." I guess my lisp comes out in my writing.

Joe Blow said...

As I said previously, the establishment politicians have only themselves to blame. Trump is absolutely not the answer, IMHO, but it appears that great, nation sustaining middle class is who elected him, and it is because they are the ones who have been forgotten. The poor (thankfully) have so many programs to assist them in addition to food stamps, Medicaid, rent subsidies, free cell phones, free home repairs, and on and on. The wealthy have everything and can easily structure their lives to avoid paying taxes for the many government benefits they enjoy (Trump). But the middle class must pay HUGE chunks of their salaries for health insurance, medicine, housing, and college, with nothing left for saving for old age----and THEY are paying the taxes for the wealthy and the poor.

Can they be blamed for saying ENOUGH!!!

ADmin said...

Totally understand - never been so relieved to be Canadian... (cough-cough) Come to think of it; maybe I SHOULD be more upset.

Kamineni said...

From WikiLeaks in February.
> We're told that President Clinton thinks that Trump would be a formidable opponent in the general election, and that Dems are in a form of denial if they dismiss Trump as a joke who would be easily defeated in November.
> thinks that Trump has his finger on the pulse of the electorate's mood and that only a well-financed, concerted campaign portrayed him as dangerous and bigoted will win.
> thinks the single greatest weapon against Trump is Trump's own instinct to make outrageous, divisive, even hateful comments that can come across as unpresidential.

> think Trump could pose a real threat in battleground states that President Obama carried in 2008 and 2012 -- like Virginia and Ohio -- and he will be competitive in Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin.

Bill Clinton had it figured out 8 months ago. If he were being completely honest, he would have said the best way to beat Trump is by nominating someone else, but I think he had reasons to keep quiet about that.

dave said...


I believe that nobody here, or in general nobody on the left, believes that your situation, and the situation of the entire US working class, is anything less than gravely serious.

The Country is broken in many many ways.

That said, that does not change the fact that the man who was elected as your "saviour" is an obvious charlatan, con man, megalomaniac, and about as unprincipled as they come.

Does the fact that so many millions fell for this con make them morons? No.

It just makes the whole situation all the more terribly sad and tragic.

God Bless you as well. We certainly are going to need the intervention of a higher power.

Heli said...

Peter, very well spoken. Thank you for a fantastic post.

All of us, whatever our political leanings, are human beings. None of us deserve to be written off. A little time to get to know people who disagree with you is well spent, particularly after a campaign full of divisive and extreme language.

Peter said...

Thank you to Joe Blow, Dave, and Heli for your responses.

Dave, I really don't think Trump is any kind of savior. I am very aware of his many faults and weaknesses. I agree that the country is broken, and I wish someone other than Trump was the messenger of the legitimate anger many people feel.

But I didn't "[fall] for this con." That's exactly the attitude I was suggesting people on the left should reconsider. I wasn't conned. My eyes were open. I knew what I was getting, and so did most people who voted for him. If Trump lets us down, so what else is new? I actually think he's capable of accomplishing at least some of what he promised. He didn't con me. I liked what he was selling, and think he might pull it off. I believe there is a tremendous culture of corruption in Washington DC, and Hillary would have perpetuated the elitist status quo. Trump at least gives us hope that someone is listening to us, and will respond to our concerns.

VP81955 said...

Thank God Proposition M passed. Thank you, Los Angeles County.

Dave said...


I know this is not the forum to carry out an extended debate. Let us agree that we disagree about Trump's concern for the working class. Time will tell.

In terms of "corruption" though, I must respond to your comment. I think what some call corruption, I call the rich acting to further their self interests to the exclusion of everyone else. In our 240 year National history, I defy you to name one non-wartime example of the Rich voluntarily acting in the interests of the larger community.

Trump has already called for less regulations on the banking and finance sectors. How short is our collective memory that we have already forgotten that excesses of the Financial sector came with a hair's breadth of destroying the global economy in 2008.

Do not get me wrong, I do not see Hillary as being any better on the issues I just called out. But the idea of Trump being a friend of the working class...

Again, let us pray.


Peter said...

Dave - I appreciate our dialogue, but agree that this isn't the forum for discussing politics. We will agree to disagree, with mutual respect. I won't write more after this comment.

Briefly, concerning corruption, I believe the Clinton Foundation to be one of the most corrupt entities in our country's history.

I'll leave you with 2 examples of Trump seeming to care about the working class. These are just small anecdotes, but there are many of them. I think he is sincere:

1) Yesterday:

2) An Atlantic article from two months ago:

Quote from the article:

The 70-year-old Republican nominee took his time walking from the green room toward the stage. He stopped to chat with the waiters, service workers, police officers, and other convention staffers facilitating the event. There were no selfies, no glad-handing for votes, no trailing television cameras. Out of view of the press, Trump warmly greets everyone he sees, asks how they are, and, when he can, asks for their names and what they do.

“I am blown away!” said one worker, an African American man who asked for anonymity because he wasn’t authorized to speak to the press. “The man I just saw there talking to people is nothing like what I’ve seen, day in and day out, in the news.”

JustMy2Cents said...

Erich617 said it perfectly: "My question is about what I see as the disconnect between the entertainment industry and the general public (I think other elite sectors are probably having this conversation too). Ultimately, my goal as an entertainer is to entertain people. But the industry has become increasingly vocal about politics, and I wonder if it is alienating the audience."

I am a college-educated woman, squarely in the middle class. I was a '92 Clinton voter, but I did not vote for Obama in '08 or '12. Now before you excoriate my viewpoints, I want to explain what happened with Trump from my little corner of Florida. When I expressed concerns in 2009 about the ACA prior to its passage, I was called a "hater, racist, bigot, tea-bagger..." Okay. Enter the ACA, passed with not one vote of bipartisan support. Okay, I accepted it. Then my healthcare splintered into a zillion pieces, with my premiums and deductibles skyrocketing. This may not be a big deal to ruling elites or wealthy elites, but to us in the middle class, it felt like a thumb in the eye. It felt like a big middle finger from my government. My husband and I work our asses off to make ends meet and play by the rules, why are we being punished? I've got a kid with seizures and developmental delays; my "new" healthcare was a nightmare. When opposition DISCUSSION was brought forth against Obama policy, the opposition was mocked, dismissed, vilified, and demonized. This is not liberal, and it's not progressive; it's not American. It's thought control, and it's (sorry) fascist. Those of us who were against Obama POLICY were called racists, haters, morons, "teabaggers"...

I find it strange that the media was surprised by the polling disparity. For example, when we see this:
President Obama's job approval rating: 56%
Is the country headed in the right direction? 70% say "NO".

It means this: "I disagree with Barack Obama's policy, but if I say something I will be called a racist." The lofty PC media elites and the dismissive Washington elites own this Trump Frankenstein. They have been vilifying, tone deaf and dismissive to anyone with a differing opinion. The political opposition put forth "gentlemen Republicans" who were vilified and demonized. If the Republicans resurrected Mother Teresa as their nominee she would be mocked, excoriated, called a racist hater, a moron, and a whore before it all ended. "Woe to anyone with a different opinion", is how it felt if your me watching CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS... For voters in the middle class, why bother explaining or protesting anymore? The only way that the elites would listen to us "little people" was through the ballot box. As Michael Moore said, "Trump will win this election because the Democrat Party has abandoned the middle-class (specifically in the Rust Belt). They will vote for Trump, the proverbial middle finger pointed at all elites who have stopped listening."

I do not relish anyone's tears after this election. I totally understand that disappointment and fear, but from the other side; from the side of a middle-class person who is at the mercy of wealthy ruling elites, and, unlike Barbra Streisand, Rosie O'Donnell or Chelsea Handler, I cannot afford to move to Canada or Spain. So now, everyone feel free to rip me apart for having a different viewpoint, but my family has been directly adversely affected by Obama policy. I guess my problem is irrelevant to elites, but that's how things have worked for me under Obama policies.

I have Democrat friends who are feeling awful about this election, and I am truly sorry for that. Maybe if folks on both sides could have more civil dialogue and stop demonizing each other we can make amends.

Diane D said...

I could not have voted for Trump, but I understand everything you said, and you are right, and your opinion should be respected by everyone. I'm sorry the ACA made your life so difficult. It did so for many people. It is tragic that middle class Americans must now wish their lives away, dreaming of that day they will be 65 and eligible for Medicare.

Unknown said...

A better reading of Obama at 63% vs Wrong direction 70% is Republican's obstructionist failure. Gay marriage +63%, ACA details +81% ProChoice +58% etc; Government shutdown 31%, Citizens United 17% etc!!!!!
While sympathising with your personal Health care issue, is it really because of ACA or is it because of insurance corporate decisions? And much worse would your healthcare have been if ACA didn't pass?
To vote for Bill Clinton but not Obama during Great Recession? Where is the disconnect? And it isn't demonizing to name the Demon by his demonic actions. (MT, resurrected or not, was a racist and advocated suffering = demon, too)

Peter: Was a great speech, did Reagan ever look into those despairing? No

By what measure can you claim Democratic leaders have become detached - auto bailout for builders and suppliers, a c a for uninsured/despairing, stimulus package package for lower and middle class to recover from Great Recession faster than any honest world economy.
The VC country is NOT broken, the neocon/teapartiest dominate the newstainment that the uneducated consume because it's simplistic and my definition - entertaining.
Eyes open, knew what you're getting is what every conned victim says. None is more corrupted and elitist than Trump! He bragged about it and packaged it for self profit. You say it all - "I liked what he was selling" - gimme that ol' time grabbin', beaner tossin', tax cuttin' he-man hero!

Until we solve the conundrum of why vast numbers vote against their own self interests, we will be doomed to Elections that are close enough to steal by Supreme decision and voter suppression like Crosscheck.

Dave said...

Hey Ken - I was just climbing back through some Frasier episodes, and I found this gem in S11E12: All the cast is chowing down in front of a weigh-in, bringing hamburgers and such, and Gill says "And a duck confit that's as rich as Donald Trump, and twice as greasy". Two things - one, I hope you wrote that line, and two, whoever did is quite prescient.

JustMy2Cents. said...

Nat ElDorado,

"Until we solve the conundrum of why vast numbers vote against their own self interests"...

You are proving my point in a perfect way. How arrogant and elitist a comment is this? With all due respect,what the hell do you know about what's "best for my own self-interests"? Do you understand how condescending you sound?

And yes, my healthcare fiasco is a direct result of Barack Obama's ACA... Insurance companies are forced to comply with the law; the purpose of Obamacare was to break the insurance companies, thus driving everyone to a single-payer system. Even we "uneducated" understand that. My son had to have a triple craniotomy for intractable seizures when he was four; (he is now 19).... I've dealt with insurance companies for many, many years. Obamacare sucks for me. That's great that it worked out for you, but don't presume to understand my self-interests, please. I don't need a parent; I just need the government to get the hell off of my back.

When you say "the neocon/teapartiest dominate the newstainment that the uneducated consume because it's simplistic and my definition - entertaining"... I find that incredibly insulting and dismissive. Enter excoriating and insulting analysis... GO! I'm tired of trying to explain it, so I'll make it simple... I see Obama's government as financially oppressive because it has been to me and my family. It's punished me. Your argument of "You just don't know better! You just don't know what's good for you!" is part of the reason why Mr. Trump won. He may be a Frankenstein asshole, but from my perspective, he's better than 4 more years of Obama policy.

So we're not going to agree. Look, I don't have a doctorate in poly-sci, but the political shift in this country is not that hard to understand if you're in the middle class. I am under no illusions that Donald Trump is going to be some savior of America. But if you're not willing to lend yourself to understanding us "little people" in the middle class, then you're going to help render the Democrat party irrelevant for the next decade or so.

(PS: I voted for Bill Clinton for several reasons, but mainly because I liked his balanced budget approach. I did not support Hillarycare...)