Jim Susky kicks off (for those of you having football withdrawal):
What are some extreme examples of typecasting?
Certainly one would have to be George Reeves. He played Superman in the 1950’s TV series. He was supposed to be in FROM HERE TO ETERNITY. When the studio head screened the movie in a room of employees, all the women reacted when seeing him on the screen. A few called out “Superman.” The studio president then insisted he be cut out of the movie. Reeves never got a good part after Superman.
I think Flo from Progressive Insurance is going to find it hard to get parts, although in her case, the money she’s made from Progressive should set her up for life.
From Dave:
I'd like to know how Kelsey Grammar had time to guest on Becker when he was making Frasier at the time.
Multi-camera shows generally work on a schedule of three weeks on and one week off. And of course these shows are scattered. So BECKER arranged to do the script with Kelsey the week FRASIER was on their hiatus.
Brian Phillips asks:
Have you ever had or seen difficulties assembling a writing staff?
Unless you load the staff with writers you’ve known and trust, it’s always a crapshoot.
You read hundreds of specs hoping to find one or two that are good. You interview writers hoping they’ll get along in the room with the other writers. You can be fooled by both.
Any time you work with people you don’t know you have no idea whether they’ll fit in, whether they’ll pick up on your system, whether they’ll contribute in the room.
It’s more than just talent. There has to be room chemistry. And that’s hard to determine strictly from reading scripts and/or interviews.
Also, I’m looking for the best writers and I don’t care their ethnicity or gender. So that makes it a little easier because I’m not focusing on one specific trait; I’m open to anybody.
And finally, from JS:
What dramatic moment sticks with you. Mine - Friday Night Lights -Tami tried to talk Coach into buying an upgraded house. He had to say he'd love to buy it for her, but it was a stretch financially and he could never sleep at night worrying about that mortgage. He wanted to give it to her so bad, it was just sad.
The killing of Henry Blake. The killing of Lady Sybil.
The ending of the SOPRANOS affected me, but in a bad way. I still loathe that ending.
What’s your Friday Question?
52 comments :
But George Reeves was NOT cut out of From Here to Eternity and every account I've seen says the limited screen time he had was what was intended for the character
What did you think of The Sopranos commercial during the Super Bowl?
Would hope for her sake most of the "Flo" persona is wig / makeup / etc and the actress under it all could do something else. But what?
I'm not one to be an internet nit-picker, but the George Reeves story is a myth. There's a devoted group of Superman/Reeves fanatics out there who've researched this thoroughly, even obtaining a copy of the original FROM HERE TO ETERNITY script. All of Reeves' scenes were done exactly as written and nothing was cut. Audiences may have tittered seeing Superman onscreen, affecting his future acting prospects, but his scenes in that movie were intact.
The other Reeves myth is that when the bullets were done bouncing off Superman's chest, the crook would throw the gun at him and Reeves would duck! That only happened in one episode (out of 104) and it was a stunt man who ducked! I wish I could remember which comedian first joked about the ducking, because he created a myth that will never go away.
I can't remember where it was online, but someone did a play-by-play of the diner scene at the end of The Sopranos. It was entirely convincing. Both from the details of the physical events, and numerous examples of symbolism, there's no question that Tony was shot.
Brilliant ending.
My most memorable cinematic “dramatic moment” was Linda Blair’s neck being turned into a Lazy Susan. That sent me into a two-week tailspin. I slept with the lights on for at least that long.
I’m still trying to forget where in the same movie Mercedes McCambridge told the priest where and what his mother was busy doing.
Robert Shaw sliding into that chomping robot shark.
Slim Pickens rodeoing on that bomb.
I found anything Robert Blake did or said onscreen - or especially off - were generally more than than jarring enough.
Stephanie Courtney, who plays Flo, has had a recurring role on The Goldbergs for years. I think I'm the only one who sees her and recognizes her as Flo. She also guested on You're The Worst and other shows during her time as Flo. And it seems that she has a robust voice acting career. When and if the Flo thing ends, it doesn't seem she'll have any problems getting work if she wants to keep working.
As far as unforgetable dramatic movie moments, my topper is still Lilah Crane spinning the chair around in PSYCHO, and seeing the corpse of Mrs. Bates. A few years later, the first scene between Robert Redford and Katherine Ross in BUTCH CASSIDY affected my 13-year old self in a totally different way.
The murder of Rita Bennett Morgan on Dexter. I couldn't fault them, it was the perfect way to end that season but it haunted me for some time.
Whereas it was true that George Reeves had a hard time getting acting roles after SUPERMAN which of course probably contributed to his suicide FHTE director Fred Zinnemann always insisted that his part was not cut down. He, the editor, screenwriter Daniel Taradash, and assistant director Earl Bellamy maintained that every scene Reeves shot made it into the movie. In fact, he is in a lot of scenes even though in some he has one or no lines, such as the scene where Burt Lancaster threatens Earnest Borgnine with a smashed beer bottle and Reeves' close up when Montgomery Cliff is playing taps after Maggio's death.
The dramatic moment(s) that sticks with me (media related) is the entire series of ENDEAVOUR (the Inspector Morse prequel), which can be viewed as a tragedy, because viewers of the original series know that the initially sweet, idealist Morse will later become an embittered alcoholic who SPOILER dies alone.
Two moments that have always stuck with me: the moment in ER when Carter gets stabbed, falls to the floor and discovers Lucy bleeding out on the other side of the room. That moment, coupled with the song choice ("Battle Flag" by Lo-Fidelity All-Stars) made one of my favorite moments of TV of all time. I got chills then, I still get chills thinking about it now.
The second? Dud's speech towards the end of the run of LODGE 49 where he tries to reconcile how everything good in his life that he has at that time was the result of his father dying -- a horrible moment in his life. How do you come to terms with that? It was a stellar moment for Wyatt Russell and made me a fan of his. (Also, LODGE 49 is such a fantastic show that no one seemed to watch.)
However, there IS an instance of an actor being replaced after a film was theoretically completed. In THE HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER, there's a Pentagon briefing scene, and one of the generals was played by Ed O'Neill. When he appeared, preview audiences laughed, assuming that "Al Bundy" was there for some comedy relief. But it was absolutely a serious role. The actors were reassembled (fortunately it was a stock set) and the scene was reshot with Fred Dalton Thompson in the role.
Here’s a Friday question that’s in reality just me complaining.
. The world has gone through several years of apocalyptic reality. It seems like everything bad that can happen, happens.
So why would Hollywood think people would want to see movies about the end of the world, climate disasters and post apocalyptic dystopias? It’s like everyday I’m seeing a new one coming out.
It seems to me that people would like to see fantasies about positive things to take their minds off of all the chaos. More ET and less 2012.
The person I remember being typecast out of jobs was Max Baer Jr. As I understand it, he was pretty resentful of this and would get in fights with people on the street for calling him Jethro and mocking his stupidity. He was, of course, a very intelligent guy. His inability to get roles led to him making Macon County Line which was a big hit. In my youth, I worked as a towel boy in a men’s health club that he went to. He always seemed angry. I saw him working out in the gym and I can tell you he is not a person I would mess with.
Friday Question: I've noticed that people often expect those who work together in a movie or on a TV series to become lifelong friends, to the point that they often express outrage if an actor says that they're not in touch with their former costars. I find this odd because I tend to think that TV and film work is probably like any other job -- you have a good working relationship with someone, or you don't, and sometimes the working relationship develops into an outside friendship. Do you think this could be a result of people projecting the on-screen relationships onto the actors themselves, and do you find that people expect you to be in touch with everyone you've ever worked with?
@blinky - If the crazed Putin has his way, those dystopian future films might seem like documentaries.
the death of Henry Blake definitely sticks with me.
I know I have many other moments, but two that immediately come to mind are, first, Terms of Endearment, when Shirley Maclaine hammers on the desk at the nurse station to get Debra Winger her pain medication the instant it is due. She was completely in the moment and in character, and it so powerfully captures the power, and kind, of the love her character was capable of.
The second is the sweet finale of season two of Schitt's Creek, when the family dances together in Mutt's barn. That one is probably on my mind due to the recency effect: we have been viewing the series together in my house, slowly because we all have to be available at the same time. I think we are still in season three now.
@mike schlesinger
THFRO was a naval film. Therefore the leaders in the room (James Earl Jones and Fred Thompson) are Admirals, not Generals. Also, I have never head of Ed O'Neill being cast in the movie. The story was that his role in The Spanish Prisoner was reduced because of inappropriate audience laughter during test screenings.
@iamr4man
> I saw [Max Baer Jr] working out in the gym and I can tell you he is not a person I would mess with.
Considering he is the son of a former WBA heavyweight champion, I wouldn't mess with him either, even if he was the nicest guy in the world.
It seems "Jethro" had some success turning small film bugets into big box-office. Here is what wikipedia has for Macon County Line:
Richard Compton Director, Writer
Max Baer Jr, Writer, Producer
Richard Compton
Roger Camras - Executive producer
Richard Franchot - Associate producer
Budget - $225,000
Box office - $30 million
"The film earned $10 million in rentals in North America."
He directed and produced the 1976 film Ode to Billy Joe.
from Wikipedia, Max Baer Jr:
"Made for US$1.1 million, (Ode to Billy Joe) grossed $27 million at the box office, and earned over US$2.65 million outside the US, US$4.75 million from television, and US$2.5 million from video."
The death of Gary Shepherd (played by Peter Horton)and his bicycle on Thirtysomething. I really rocked me.
Years later I was working with Patti Wettig and I told her how it affected me. She made sure I met Ken Olin when he visited the set.
I was tongue tied and could barely speak.
There are two moments in "Lady and the Tramp" that cause involuntary sniffs. One, where some dogs are barking "No Place Like Home" in the pound, and they cut away to less cartoony dogs looking miserable. Two, when the bloodhound Trusty appears to be dead and Jock the terrier gives a lone howl.
Yes, they're 100% ink and paint and it's cheap, obvious Disney manipulation. But damn, they always work on me.
And unless it's a parody, any version of "Christmas Carol" has to REALLY screw up to not draw tears for Tiny Tim at some point. Heck, even "Scrooged" managed it.
Cinematic moment: The concluding moments of Planet of the Apes. Astronaunt Taylor, on horseback with gorgeous Nova. Riding along the sands of an ocean beach. Suddenly, sharp-edged shadows of "something" cast upon the sand. Taylor stops the horse and dismounts. Gets on his hands and knees and pounds the sand in angered hysterics. The object casting the shadows is revealed.
My 8-year old self was watching this on a 9 inch black & white TV. I was absolutely astonished.
20 years later I bring my 8-year old nephew to a video store to rent the movie. I want my nephew to experience the same shock (and awe!) as I had. We search the store for a copy. My nephew finds it first. Planet of the Apes. Right there on the cover of the video box? The object casting the shadows on the beach. End of movie ruined.
TV dramatic moment: On the sitcom, Soap. Wealthy murderer Chester Tate has lost his memory. He is clueless as to his own identity. He is a thousand miles from home, working as "Cookie" in a truck-stop diner. A trucker enters and orders the "cheddar plate". "Cookie" hears those words and a memory is triggered. Cheddar plate? Chester Tate! The TV audience screams in delight. Chester remembers! My teenage self is just as giddy. Chester Tate heads for home and will face his criminal destiny.
Are there dramatic moment memories stronger than those experienced in our youth?
FRIDAY QUESTION: Is it important or even necessary for a sitcom script to have A & B story lines? If yes, should they be connected in some way?
Here's why I ask. Last night I watched one of my favorite "Frasier" episodes, "The Matchmaker." Unless I missed it there was only one story line, the new station manager thinks Frasier is gay. Daphne needs a boyfriend was just there to set up the main story.
When "Seinfeld" was in its prime one of the best things about it was the way it would tie the different story lines together at the end. Or at least the various lines were part of a common theme. "The Contest," for example.
One of the things I really disliked about the last few seasons of "The Big Bang Theory" was that they had A,B & C stories that were totally disconnected. It was almost as if you were watching two or three different shows.
Would you give some examples of the best use of A,B stories. Either ones you wrote or other writers'?
BONUS QUESTION: Does A,B,C apply to plays as well?
Re: Stereotypes. Say Bela Lugosi and what immediately comes to mind? DRACULA! And while Boris Karloff wasn't always "Frankenstein's monster" most of his roles were relegated to the horror genre. Except for "How the Grinch Stole Christmas," of course.
M.B.
There’s always Bambi. Not a dry eye.
Max Baer, Sr. infamously killed one guy in the ring. Within the next couple of fights he so damaged a second guy that he died after the next bout.
I always figured Jr. carried similar capabilities, and thus urge all to respectfully heckle him as “Mr. Jethro”
I liked the ambiguity of the ending of THE SOPRANOS.
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The three-way gunfight in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly gave me chills. So did Roy's rooftop soliloquy in the rain in Bladerunner. The incinerator scene in Toy Story 3. Steve saying, "I can do this all day," when Tony is punching him in Civil War. The montage at the beginning of Up. Riley's sacrifice in Alien 3 and Ahnold doing a Joe Magarac in the ending of T2. The "Cuban Pete" number in The Mask. Michael explaining the family to his wife in The Godfather. Any number of Twilight Zone episodes.
Perfection. That's what gives the chills.
The three-way gunfight in The Good, the Bad and the Ugly gave me chills. So did Roy's rooftop soliloquy in the rain in Bladerunner. The incinerator scene in Toy Story 3. Steve saying, "I can do this all day," when Tony is punching him in Civil War. The montage at the beginning of Up. Riley's sacrifice in Alien 3 and Ahnold doing a Joe Magarac in the ending of T2. The "Cuban Pete" number in The Mask. Michael explaining the family to his wife in The Godfather. Any number of Twilight Zone episodes.
Perfection. That's what gives the chills.
For dramatic moments in a sitcom, how about on AITF when Edith is about to be raped and how she stops her assailant? Or on The Jeffersons at the KKK meeting when the boy tells his father that George used CPR to save his father's life and the father says, "You should've let me die."
Note to Roseann: They'd thought at first that Gary was on his bike as usual, but he turned out to have been in his car (on the Schuylkill Expressway). I saw that episode 30 years ago and not since, but I clearly recall the irony of that.
Milena Weintraub is enjoying a good career as "Lilly" on the AT&T commercials. Seems like a good gig, being a TV character pitchperson; steady work and income, you're in the public eye, and you can fall back on it if a TV or movie opportunity falls through (Weintraub was shooting a comedic Marvel series when one of the streaming network suits impulsively yanked it). And as J.K. Simmons has proven, appearing in commercials doesn't mean you can't give acclaimed movie performances.
Re: dramatic moments, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Bambi's mother yet.
Diana Muldaur stepping into an elevator shaft on "L.A. Law."
Gut punchers - too many to list from MASH, but one of yours with the soldier hypnotized into remembering finding his brother dead in the foxhole.
Brenda's mother's death on The Closer is pretty harrowing - I still haven't seen it a second time.
Matt Saracen on Friday Night Lights viewing his father's body in the funeral home.
Sam and Diane's farewell scene on Cheers with the final dance.
The return of Grandma on The Waltons and her final scene with Grandpa - Will Geer died after the episode was completed.
He didn't die, but Frank Underwood's assassination attempt on House of Cards - this happened about a year before Kevin Spacey and the Me Too movement dropped - had me on pins and needles during that story arc. His Secret Service agent Meachem died, which was disappointing...I liked his character.
As for the Sopranos ending, I thought it was clever but when it first happened, I like many people thought my satellite went out. After about 10 seconds of black the credits started and I wondered what I'd just watched.
The classic 1951 A CHRISTMAS CAROL when Scrooge (Alastair Sim) says to Fred's wife, "Can you forgive a pig-headed old fool for having no eyes to see with, nor ears to hear with, all these years?" I assume she can. I'm always crying.
It's not a show you associate with emotional intensity, but there's this one episode of Columbo. Towards the end, it looks as if the killer (played by Leonard Nimoy) is going to get away with two murders, he laughs in Columbo's face, and Columbo suddenly becomes angry and threatening. It's a surprising moment for a character who usually acts polite and deferential, and a reminder of why Peter Falk was good at playing hoods.
Gary, it's not exactly true that "Superman" ducked out of the way of the thrown handgun in only 1 of the 104 episodes of "The Adventures of Superman", because that very scene was also shown in a clip-show the producers of the series ordered up at the end of the first season in order to bring the show in under budget. Stuntman Dale Van Sickel ducked in the episode "The Mind Machine", and that scene was shown again in "Crime Wave", which contained lots of stock footage and a few segments of prior shows.
I've also read in several places that George Reeves' part in the released version of "From Here to Eternity" appeared just as shot, but from that point on, Reeves' career outside of "Superman" was over.
Oh, and the comedian who pointed out the "ducking" was the late David Brenner.
Stephanie Courtney (Flo the insurance lady) is a former member of the Groundlings and a very versatile comic actress who's played lots of roles since she began those ads in 2008. She's even done commercials where she plays Flo and her entire family, male and female, in different get-ups. I think she'll be fine.
I agree with Blinky above about all the depressing movies (which also all seem to be at least 2-1/2 hours long for maximum depression.) During the real Depression, Hollywood knew people needed escape and turned out countless light comedies and brilliant musicals. But that took creativity and imagination. It's a lot easier to ruin someone else's movie by remaking it longer, more violent and more PC. And of course, adding a lot of CGI.
As for affecting scenes, I second Henry Blake's death (which shocked me as a kid) and Ted Danson's, "Have a good life," followed by the fantasy dance of the elderly Sam and Diane to "What'll I Do." That song alone always gets to me. My wife Laura just recorded it for her next album, at my request.
I tend to get choked up at people expressing regrets for what they didn't do. A recent scene came in "Young Sheldon" after his dad drove him to Florida for a NASA launch that was canceled by a storm. At the end, the adult Sheldon said in voiceover that even though he didn't see the launch, it was the best trip he ever took, then added, "I wish I'd told my father that while he was still alive." That really hit me.
And to add the realm of theater, one line that always gets to me comes at the end of Sondheim's "Merrily We Roll Along." It moves backward in time, so we know all the terrible things that are going to happen to the characters because of Frank's bad choices. At the end, we see young Frank meet Mary for the first time and jokingly say to his roommate, "I just met the girl I should marry!" And he doesn't realize that he actually did.
I did not know the story of "Les Miserables" until I saw the stage musical, and the film, (both multiple times), so I would say any one of a number of moments, especially at the end. However, early on, when we expect the priest to confirm that Valjean stole the silver only to hear him say he gave Valjean the silver and that Valjean forgot some other pieces...well, that gets me every time.
And yes, childhood memories of "Twilight Zone" episodes still as fresh in my mind as when I first watched them.
As far as what "Flo" {Stephanie Courtney} has done elsewhere: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0183960/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
She was doing fine before Progressive, she'll do fine after....or if....she or Progressive ever decides to hang Flo up.
Journey/Steve Perry owns that last scene...no analysis needed.
The movie Ed O'Neil was cut out of was FLIGHT OF THE INTRUDER, not THE HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER, though it is correct that he was recast with Fred Dalton Thompson.
@Pat Reeder, Merrily We Roll Along was originally a straight play by George S. Kaufman and Moss Hart, which was adapted into the Sondheim musical, but had the same backwards in time device. I don't have a copy of the script anymore, but I'm fairly certain that line was in the original.
Maybe on a Sopranos spin-off or a related show Tony Soprano could come back as a ghost to reveal what happened to him just like Jessica Tate.
Of course, Blake's death on MASH and Sam & Diane's parting.
There was the ALL IN THE FAMILY episode "Archie is Branded" with the swastika painted on the Bunkers' front door. After the longish debate with the vigilante, which already had an effective point by Mike ("Because this... will only get you this"), the man's fate at the end really hit hard (with an assist from a suitably ugly sound effect). Also, great use of the silent initial end credits.
The show COACH had one. It was a Very Special Episode and mostly dramatic throughout. The episode dealt with the use of dangerous steroids in school competition. But the ending admission by Coach Fox was the gut punch needed to drive the point home.
I had some dealings with Max Baer several years ago--strictly business--and at least on a professional level, very nice and very easy to deal with. I never brought up "The Beverly Hillbillies," for which he thanked me, noting that after fifty years, you get tired of idiots hollering, "Hey, Jethro, do some cipherin' for us," at you.
I believe he's the only one from that series still living, isn't he?
To Breadbaker: Thanks for the reminder. I'm a big Kaufman & Hart fan, and I knew that was based on their play, but just didn't recall it when I wrote that comment. I think that proves I'm not a robot.
Most dramatic movie moment for me is in Sophies Choice when we finally see the Nazi's take her baby away.
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Friday Question:
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Asked about dramatic TV moments that have stuck with you, you happened to mention the UNFORGETTABLE 1975 "Abyssinia, Henry" episode from M*A*S*H, which is one of my all-time favorites!
In all your experience, have you ever been personally involved in any memorably "shocking" episodes like that one.....or, if not, were you ever a part of any of the "VERY Special Episodes" that seemed to be a fad for a while (for instance, Michael J. Fox's (mostly) one man show Family Ties episode from 1987 entitled, "A, My Name Is Alex", that ran a full hour) ??
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@ Mike Bloodworth
As a viewer, I find that the A and B plots don't necessarily have to connect but it does help in storytelling. Your Frasier example was a very good pick.
Married with Children was a series that was good at marrying A and B plots. Some examples.
"Johnny B. Gone": Actually four different plots as Marcy must wait for her dress to be cleaned after an accident with fish, Kelly has trouble with her friends, Bud has trouble with a RC car, and Peggy and Al want to visit a place they cherish on closing night.
"The House That Peg Lost": Peggy manages to get Steve and Marcy's house removed from its foundation while Kelly wants to hold a slumber party (where Bud causes trouble by saying that Kelly was dating her friends boyfriends.)
"Oldies But Young Un's": Al tries to find his favorite tune while Kelly dates a boy named Vinnie (Matt LeBlanc). Note that the plots loosely tie together as Al enlists the help of Vinnie's father Charlie while Vinnie accidentally destroys Al's prized record at the end of the episode.
One more example:
"The Mystery of Skull Island": Bud goes out with a girl out for adventure while the Bundys and D'Arcys play a board game called Ethical Dilemma.
Meanwhile The Simpsons is good at self contained plots. Here are three examples.
"Marge in Chains:" Marge is on the lam from the law with pursuit from Homer and Clancy Wiggim while Lionel Hutz babysits Bart and Lisa.
"Das Bus": While the kids are stranded on a desert island enroute to a Model UN event, Homer starts an internet business.
"Natural Born Kissers:" Homer and Marge try to put the spark back in their sex life while Bart and Lisa come across an alternative ending to Casablanca when they use a metal detector.
Gregory Sierra, later of "Barney Miller," played the vigilante.
In this moment, Verbal's limp becoming Keyser's walk in Usual Suspects.
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