From Chris Andelman:
My question is about writing episodes for guest actors. Do you ever sign them first and then write with them in mind?
Yes, but not always. The CHEERS staff had an idea for a character they thought would be great for John Cleese. He liked the idea and agreed to played it. Peter Casey & David Lee then wrote a brilliant script.
When my partner, David Isaacs and I wrote the Tonight Show episode of CHEERS we had Johnny Carson going in. We kind of insisted on it.
A hot show will attract hotter guest stars. The Zeitgeist Factor is huge. Britney Spears did a HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER. I doubt they could have gotten her for ACCORDING TO JIM. Julia Roberts did FRIENDS. We couldn’t get Iron Eyes Cody for AfterMASH.
It always helps to hear the actor’s voice in your head as you write but most times you’re not afforded that luxury. You write a character and hope it will attract a big name.
In the first year of CHEERS David Lloyd wrote a wonderful episode called “The Spy Who Came In For a Cold One”. It’s about a larger-than-life figure who comes into the bar. Richard Burton had just done an episode of SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN (I think he and Lee Majors were friends) so we thought, “Let’s get him.” Burton passed. I forget who came up with this brainstorm but we then offered the part to Jack Elam. He was that terrific character actor with the wandering eye who always played scruffy characters, usually killers in westerns. I’m sure it’s the first time the same role had ever been offered to Richard Burton and Jack Elam. Elam passed. And we wound up with Ellis Raab, a rather flamboyant theatrical actor – who couldn’t have been more dissimilar to either Burton or Elam.
For the “Hot Rocks” episode of CHEERS, David and I thought we had Celtics’ star, Larry Bird. So we concocted a story where Rebecca thought he stole her earrings. Bird then dropped out. So we went with the next logical choice -- Admiral William J. Crowe, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
But if I had to break it down I'd guess you go to the guest star before you write the script 70% of the time. Maybe 71%
From Adrian:
Was hit with a question and wasn't sure how to answer it when they asked "sure it sounds funny, but what's the comic depth of the sitcom?" I'd love to answer that but I keep getting different takes on what exactly "comic depth" means. Can you help define it?
First off, I hate it when people say “Sure, it sounds funny”, or “Yeah, it’s funny but…” Do they have any idea how hard it is to MAKE something funny? “Yeah, you replaced six of his vital organs but…” So right away I want to smack those people. “Comic depth” sounds like one of those actor terms like “emotional center” or “total being”. There’s no such thing. It's bullshit. A better question might be where’s the reality of the joke? The best jokes come from relatable behavior that could plausibly happen.
That’s not to say the behavior can’t be extreme. Just justify it. Characters who are desperate or under tremendous pressure or are love sick (just to name a few examples) will do wacky things, irrational things, unpredictable things. But you buy it if you know exactly what has driven them to such extremes.
My other explanation is that “comic depth” is 2 feet 6 inches.
What’s your question?
32 comments :
Comic depth is hard to define but one thing for sure. Kirstie Alley adds "comic width."
Speaking of comic depth - I just saw 2 Frasiers tonight in LA that prove your points exactly: the episode where Niles gets naked in Nervosa from the stress caused by Maris' arrest for murder & an episode you directed where Roz meets her baby-daddy's parents. Two rather different comic takes but both Funny!
You're right, comic depth sounds like a rather artsy-fartsy term. Now, if you want real comic acting --
rent those Pirates of the Carribean movies with Johnny Depth ....
As a fan of both cheers and the NBA, I thought I would just let you know that it's Larry Bird, not Byrd. Normally, I wouldn't care, but Larry IS a Hall of Fame player, so I had to mention it.
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I know Tom Reeder, who worked on Barney Miller reads this, and I was wondering if on BM, they made a point of writing parts for the many bit players who seemingly showed up on an annual basis - ie., did they go, "Lets write a role that Phil Leeds can do this for this one., etc, etc....
Crultica: A Mexican doughnuut
Bonus Ellis Raab trivia: Kelsey Grammar says that he based his performance of Sideshow Bob on Raab.
Now I'm imagining EQUUS with Jack Elam in the lead.
I think that would have been a much better film.
I was always surprised that Mel Brooks didn't find a place for Jack Elam in "Blazing Saddles." Maybe it was because he couldn't get him, or Elam's work in "Support Your Local Sheriff" meant he was already too deep in the parody business.
I'm hardly going to tell Ken Levine about comic depth, but it occurs to me that there are jokes and situations that wouldn't work for a particular character or even a particular show. Then characters or shows will go in a different direction. For example, by common consent in our family, the worst MASH episode(s) ever involved Klinger being accused of stealing the camera and Winchester defending him. It wasn't funny, it wasn't dramedy, it was silly.
Now, I loved the "Dreams" episode of MASH, but that one got a lot of criticism. Oddly enough, what I always considered one of the most brilliant episodes in a long run of brilliant episodes of Mary Tyler Moore's classic show was when Lou, Murray, and Ted dream about being married to Mary and imagine her in different ways.
My question, and I really don't know the answer, is: Was Cheers the first sitcom to do cliffhanger endings to seasons? They are almost a staple now (Friends, The Office, How I Met Your Mother are the most obvious to spring to mind). I just wondered how they got started and if it was Cheers, if you or the people who wrote the Sam/Diane stuff are excited to have influenced the genre in this way.
Regarding what comes first, the guest actor or the script: I recall, around 1990, Spy magazine did a prank where a writer posed as an agent, and called various producers and pitched actors who wouldn't be caught dead doing a sitcom. He'd call up Who's The Boss and say, "My client is Marlon Brando. He's looking to come out of retirement. Maybe you can write him into the show as a long-lost uncle." Then they'd go into all these negotiations. Others pitches were Pacino or DeNiro, going on to Alf or Fresh Prince. It was absolutely hilarious.
Somehow one episode of an obscure short lived sitcom Jack Elam starred in has stuck in my head from when I saw it as an kid. It was called Texas Wheelers and had a pre-Star Wars Mark Hamill. During a tornado Elam and Hamill end up in a storm cellar and discover all they have to eat is canned Okra and some Ketchup.
Michael Green said:
"Oddly enough, what I always considered one of the most brilliant episodes in a long run of brilliant episodes of Mary Tyler Moore's classic show was when Lou, Murray, and Ted dream about being married to Mary and imagine her in different ways."
That episode was a great example of still drawing the comedy from the personality of each character, even as they had all aged an additional 50 years. They all reacted as you would expect them to react to the situation in that particular time, since long before in the series, their characters and relationships were all so well established. I haven't known any sitcom writer in Hollywood (well, successful ones at least) who didn't emphasize knowing your characters, and the comedy will come from there.
BTW, how about Jack Elam as Marc Antony to Elizabeth Taylor's Cleopatra: "Why Antony, I notice you're staring at my right and left breasts separately...."
Wayne said...
Comic depth is hard to define but one thing for sure. Kirstie Alley adds "comic width."
And more comic depth than you showed with the cheap fat joke.
Ken,
No one is always right and no one is always wrong. Do you have any examples of one of those evil network suits saying, why don't you try x instead of y, and x being the better idea. Conversely do you have any examples of a suit saying, I prefer x instead of y, but I'll defer to your judgement and having y absolutely bomb?
Just curious.
In an interview (it may have been in a George Plimpton TV specials, where Plimpton plays a bad guy shot in a western), Jack Elam described the career arc of an actor:
1: Who is Jack Elam?
2: Get me a Jack Elam type
3: Get me Jack Elam
4: Get me a Jack Elam type
5: Who is Jack Elam?
vw: "rumnon", alcohol free and tastes good in Coke.
That same thing has been attributed to Mickey Rooney, as well.
This isn't a question, Ken, but I thought you might be tickled to know the Hallmark Channel mutes words like "boobs" and "butt" in their Cheers reruns.
Dear Wayne:
Are you local?
Wondering what your plans are for Saturday afternoon. Meet me at the Santa Monica Pier, say noon?
I weigh about a buck twenty soaking wet. But I'm gonna kick your sorry ass anyway.
Sincerely,
Tiberius
Dear Tom Quigley~
You make me LAUGH and smile.Thanks!!
Especially with your BTW posted here today.
xxooTiberius
Wandering eye--lazy eye-- is actually Amblyopia.
"In amblyopia, the brain favors one eye over the other. The other eye is ignored."
It messes up depth perception. Sometimes the weaker eye goes blind.
And it's hell on relationships in that one who suffers from it often has a hard time getting a significant other, due to the obvious "odd" look.
So, if Amblin Ent. went with Paramount/CBS instead of Universal/NBC, would the network logo get a little amblyoptical? Kind of feel the right to be insensitive on this, because our daughter had a touch of it (although attributed to just one eye-muscle being weaker than the other) until she outgrew it with execises around age 4 -- after we finally found a doctor who didn’t want to head straight for surgery without passing go. Kid just became a doctor herself two weeks ago, and still won’t cut me any slack for being colorblind. (What officer, you mean can't park in the handicapped spot?)
Hey Ms. S., Niles was necked here in Dallas late last night too. He didn’t happen to strip out there on KCAL, the sister station of our own CBS indy, did he. If that’s a yes, could mean we’re getting gang-Frasiered intentionally on broadcast TV. Here it’s on at 1:30 opposite Cops, Cheaters, a bunch of dudes playin’ poker and a series called Paid Program that I used to watch every night until I got the feeling they were reruns.
What's the big mystery about the metamorphosis? You just didn't take it far enough: Larry Bird, Admiral Byrd, Admiral Crowe, Kevin Bacon, George Hamilton, Tony Shaloub – and bingo, there you are on Wings. BTW, would you agree, of all the admirals available at the time, Crowe was the coolest?
Speaking of the Iron Eyes Cody/ Jack Elam axis of good and evil, M.G. doesn’t just the thought of all those western characters get you where you live? Thought we’d lost it with Gabby Hays, Pat Butram, Walter Brennan, Andy Devine, Chill Wills, Ben Johnson, Slim Pickens, Edgar Buchanan, and then you get Jack Elam, Dub Taylor, Richard Farnsworth, Strother Martin, Burt Gilliam (Blazing Farting Saddles, with all the teeth – but having met them both, I’m almost certain Burt shared the set with Denver Pyle).
Re Lairbo's entry above: I thought it was Alan Arkin's bit (I found this 1985-dated version by Google just now):
"First, it's 'Who's Alan Arkin?' Then, 'Get me Alan Arkin!' Then, 'He's too expensive. Get me an Alan Arkin type.' Just after that it's, 'Get me a young Alan Arkin,' and then, finally, 'Who's Alan Arkin?' "
What's with this beefing about fat Kirstie Alley? The bitch has made a career from her flab for years. Sounds like fair game to me.
Now I have a real question, Ken. When you and David write you always get top billing. Did you flip a coin for this? How was it decided?
WV: bigsta. Kirstie Alley's rapper name.
"Tom Quigley said...
BTW, how about Jack Elam as Marc Antony to Elizabeth Taylor's Cleopatra: 'Why Antony, I notice you're staring at my right and left breasts separately'."
Okay Tom, that was laugh-out-loud funny.
I hit the wrong buttom. Tom, your compliment just above was from me.
"Lairbo said...
1: Who is Jack Elam?
2: Get me a Jack Elam type
3: Get me Jack Elam
4: Get me a Jack Elam type
5: Who is Jack Elam?"
I heard it as Hugh O'Brien. In any event, step 2 makes no sense. How could they ask for a type of someone they haven't yet heard of or seen? You have to eliminate step 2.
Wayne said... Comic depth is hard to define but one thing for sure. Kirstie Alley adds "comic width."
Mary Stella said... And more comic depth than you showed with the cheap fat joke.
Mary, who are you to be calling Kirstie Alley "cheap?"
Mokside: Pretend to kill yourself.
Here's my question. You worked on some shows that had very distinctive logo designs, like "Cheers" for example. My wife and I watch a lot of ABC shows and we find that 99% of the time, the show's actual onscreen logo doesn't match the logo the network creates for the show's promotion during other programs and on the network's website. I believe that the sole example from this season where the promotional logo actually matched the main title was "Scrubs". I'm actually considering doing a huge expose on my own website about this, but I wanted your take on this: why does ABC do this and is there anything producers can do about it?
WV: "expagly" - another line from Buckwheat's script.
SPANKY
What time is it, Buckwheat?
BUCKWHEAT
Is expagly fee fifteen. Or so.
'Comic depth' 4" according to my wife.
Anyone who asks "what is the comic depth"? Is in fact likely to be responsible for "the comic death".
Wayne said...
Comic depth is hard to define but one thing for sure. Kirstie Alley adds "comic width."
Ok, I think that is just plain rude...but why do i think that? When i wouldn't find the same remark rude if you said it about Norm...Umm.
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