marka is up first.
A director question. When you had an actor in their first role on a filmed show did you ever talk to them early in the week to give them advice, or clue them in to what was happening, or anything like that? Seems like the first time might be overwhelming, even if your only line was, "here's your soup, gentlemen.”
I assume you’re talking about guest actors who are hired specifically for that episode. As a director I try to go out of my way to make them feel comfortable. A big reason is that, for reasons I don’t fully understand, some casts are horrible to guest actors.
I should pause here and say that MASH, CHEERS, BECKER, WINGS, and FRASIER could not have been nicer or more supportive. But in my freelance directing days I would encounter certain regular casts who completely shunned any guest actor. Maybe they were threatened or just had to flaunt their importance, but for whatever insecure reason they wouldn’t even talk to the guest actors.
I have a lot of friends who are actors and I bet every one has a story or six that are just like this.
And of course, the thing is, once their series is over, the regular cast is right back in the pool with the guest stars.
Anyway, as a director, I believe actors do their best work when they’re comfortable. So every actor in one of my shows gets my attention. There's no hierarchy.
Keith R.A. DeCandido has a MASH question.
I was watching "Dear Sis," and I had the captions on, something I've started doing for pretty much everything the last couple of years, and the captions completely changed a line of dialogue for me.
When Winchester is waxing rhapsodic about the Christmases at the Winchester Family Estate in Beacon Hill, he mentions the servants standing the firelight -- I always thought he said they stood in "utter servility." But the captioning says, "utter civility," which, well, isn't as funny.
I don't suppose you recall what the line is from your position as executive script consultant way back in 1978? :)
I’m lucky I remember we did an episode called “Dear Sis.”
No, I don’t remember. That was a script that Alan wrote so we did less rewriting. But whatever is the funniest interpretation — that’s the right one.
From Jay in NYC
On long running sitcoms which characters have developed the most over the run of the series. My choices are Radar in Mash, Penny in Big Bang and Rachel in Friends. Are there any others?
There are many others. I would certainly put Hot Lips at the very top of that list. The character, played beautifully by Loretta Swit, grew tremendously.
Liz Lemon on 30 ROCK. Daphne and Roz on FRASIER. Norm and Cliff on CHEERS. Robert on RAYMOND. Certainly Bonnie on MOM. I’m sure there are a hundred more. Chime in, peeps!
And finally, from Mike Bloodworth:
Once you started writing when did you realize that you could make a living at it?
When someone started paying me. I know that sounds like a flip answer, but it’s actually true. Once we sold our first script (a JEFFERSONS), were able to get into the WGA and secure a decent agent we were elevated to the ranks of working professionals. We still had to parlay that into an actual career, but the fact that even one show recognized potential in us was a huge morale boosts.
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Your answer on selling your first script may answer this, but how does a small part help secure bigger ones?
Not a great example, probably, but did they say, "Pee Wee Herman? Great, he did such a good job as the waiter in the fancy restaurant scene in 'The Blues Brothers'!"
Good stuff, always, Ken. Thanks.
A question: Are Chuck Lorre series ("Bob [Hearts] Abishola," "The United States of Al," "B Positive") available for streaming? I ask because for the past 11 months, I've been at the La Brea Rehab Center with an ailment to my lower extremities, and for the past few weeks, our cable system isn't carrying KCBS-2, despite repeated complaints to maintenance.
Now that we're in the new year, CBS has new programming (Stephen Colbert in addition to sitcom episodes) I'm unable to watch. So last night, I decided to subscribe to Paramount+, since I was able to watch "Mom" on its predecessor, CBS All Access. But a listing of available CBS series showed none from Lorre -- but it carries the network-owned "Ghosts," of course. Now I know Warners owns Lorre product, but why can't it appear on Paramount+? Who has streaming rights? Somebody please answer, or at least get someone from KCBS to fix this with La Brea Rehab.
I read an online comment recently by someone who claimed to have been an extra on The Golden Girls.
(Obviously I can't confirm if this is true. I also realize there's a big difference between an extra and a guest star.)
The extra said the only main actress who reached out to her and made her feel comfortable on the set was Betty White. Betty asked her where she was from, how long she had been acting, etc.
I'd love to know how much of the closed captioning on shows is taken from the script, taken from what captioners hear and how much is computer generated. And for fun, here's a list of interesting captioning failures: https://www.rev.com/blog/funny-closed-caption-fails
Wojo on Barney Miller had a substantial evolution/development.
Has to be "servility" because (1) that's precisely what Winchester would say, (b) "civility" doesn't really make that much sense in this context and (III) I remember watching the German dubbing and while I can't recall the exact line (plus I'm too lazy to go to my DVDs), there it's the equivalent translation of "servility", and whoever did that translation in the mid/late 1990s may have worked off an actual contemporary (tran)script of the episode and was thus in safer waters than using the crowd-sourced, fan-translated, copied and re-copied crap you'd find on the internet nowadays.
I tend to think that FRASIER didn't really know what to do with Daphne and Roz in the early seasons. They were still brilliant, for sure, but they developed more dimensions as the show went on in later seasons, and became less gimmicky characters.
As for Margaret Houlihan, I'm kind of torn, because I thought she was at her best when she was still basically, well, a bitch. On the other hand, the whole "hot lips" persona at first is kind of offensive. Her later feminist character seemed way too anachronistic for the time, especially in the army.
Go to youtube for much of Colbert's content. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMtFAi84ehTSYSE9XoHefig
I'm certain it was "servility" -- nothing else makes sense. There are websites devoted to documenting close-caption mistakes, which must be based on what some hapless person hears and tries to type (I think "read off the rent those reindeer" is my favorite). As of yesterday they can add "Cleo, Muse of History."
Henry Blake became less cartoonish as McLean Stevenson was given more substantive moments during his relatively brief time on "M*A*S*H." That's especially true in a third-season episode in which everyone shined: "O.R."
VincentP, do you have an Android phone? You can download apps for PlutoTV, Tubi, and Crackle and watch for free. PlutoTV has live channels including a Paramount+ channel featuring classic shows including Frasier, Hot in Cleveland, Hawaii Five-O, etc. On demand offers CBS Selects and usually posts new shows a week or so after they air. My only current subscription is for basic Hulu and there's an abundance of great stuff to watch including whole series of Frasier, Golden Girls, I Love Lucy, etc.
1/07/2022 9:17 AM
@VincentP
Warner Bros.' streaming service is HBOmax. However, CBS.com seems to carry the most-recent-5 episodes of the Lorre shows it airs.
I have a recurring feature on my Facebook page: Bad Closed-Captioning of the Day. Two of the most memorable: a TCM host said "a la Bogart and Bacall," which was captioned "Allah, Bogart and Bacall," and a clip of Hitler addressing a crowd, which read "speaking in foreign language." Really? Like there was a chance it might have been Swahili?
I can't find an internet reference, but I remember hearing that when Henry Fonda was filming the film On Golden Pond, the crew was so intimidated by him that they stayed away from him. One day Fonda was eating lunch alone when he said "What's the matter, do I have BO or something?" After that, the crew made it a point to spend more time with him.
I don't watch THE BIG DANG THEORY, but I was under the impression that the general consensus from people regarding Penny was that she actually devolved from being a layered character to being another generic blonde bimbo.
One of the quickest character evolutions - Kramer on Seinfeld. The first few episodes Richards played him as though he'd just stumbled out of "Awakenings" - and then he suddenly transformed into the high energy, super-confident guy who, as Richards has said, "Was one step ahead of everybody else."
Same was true of Suzanne Somers's character on "Three's Company." She was actually low-key, well-dressed, and well-spoken in the earliest episodes.
Rebecca Howe evolved from a chilly hard-ass yuppie who mostly existed as a foil to not just Sam but the general atmosphere of Cheers, to a balls-out hilarious loon who fit right in with al the others
On BIG BANG THEORY, I never found Penny's transformation from a bad waitress and struggling actress to a successful pharmaceutical sales rep to be believable. Also did not like the transformation of Bernadette from sweet and naive to a bully who was feared by her co-workers.
On "Happy Days", I witnessed the transformation of The Fonz from a "hood" to a somewhat good guy who also had more smarts then Richie, Potsie, and Ralph. I'm guessing that was done because the network wanted to make him more of a role model for the kids who were idolizing him then any natural change on the character's part. Possibly also why Richie became more of a slightly more naive character to give Fonzie more of an authority to set him right during Ron Howard's last few years on the show before quitting to give his eventual film director career full attention...
On the short-lived Patrick Warburton version of THE TICK, the creators noted on a commentary that they evolved the oddball superhero from arguably insane to a well-meaning doofus. The Americanized THE OFFICE famously softened the world's worst manager, replacing his raw egotism and selfishness with a desperation to be loved -- which still produced awful behavior.
A remarkable thing about MARRIED WITH CHILDREN is how the characters remained fixed cartoons for such a long run. Beyond Bud proving to be academically gifted, the two kids grew to adulthood without ever outgrowing their original schticks.
Limited, gimmick characters can be easier to write cheap jokes for (or laugh lines about), while more complicated ones open up a lot of new stories. Is there often a conscious decision to make a character more extreme for the sake of the big easy jokes, and/or go in the opposite direction to fuel ongoing arcs?
Just saw deadline.com article about a "re-boot" of THE HONEYMOONERS that seems like has nothing in common with the original other than the name.
The Honeymooners is described as a bold, female-driven reboot of the iconic working-class comedy centered around new wife Ruth and her husband Alex who are determined to have a marriage where they are true equals in every way.
Do they need to get permission from rightholders to re-use the name?
Although most of the tributes are focused on his amazing dramatic work, Sidney Poitier directed one of the funniest comedies of the 80s, Stir Crazy, and starred in one of my favorite 90s comedies, Sneakers.
Rest in Peace
The "feminist" transformation of Margaret, referenced above, may have been anachronistic to a degree, but not by a very large degree. The suffragette movement which arose at the end of the 19th century receded a bit in the public consciousness during the Depression and the Second World War, but it didn't fade away, and in fact was rekindled by the numbers of women encouraged to work during the war. Simone de Beauvoir's "The Second Sex" came out in 1949, and while it is unlikely that Margaret would have read it, its arguments did not come out of nowhere. Parenthetically, the great, and too often forgotten, playwright and screenwriter Sidney Howard, wrote, in 1926, a hit play (later filmed), called "The Silver Cord." Its heroine is a research scientist who is also pregnant, and very determinedly intends to continue her career once the baby is born. It's a terrific drama about women's roles, and it's far from the only one, in a period not often acknowledged as celebrating sexual equality. My point is: it's often fallacious to color an era as one thing or another - there are no rules, only exceptions.
Question: You mentioned in your review of "Licorice Pizza" that the film felt too long. I find that this is true about most movies released nowadays. Do you find this as well, and do you have any theories as to why?
Ken:
You might be able to answer this question, pertaining as it does to obscure M*A*S*H-related trivia:
Did Mike Farrell do voice-over narration for TV spots for THE EXORCIST back in 1973? To my ears it definitely sounds like him (both spots are near identical except the second one has a little bit more at the end):
https://youtu.be/g7MHCFLVRyc
https://youtu.be/tFQejKX0NEI
As far as I can see there is nothing online to verify whether that's Mike, and he made no mention of it in his autobiography.
THE EXORCIST was filmed between August 1972 and March 1973 and was released in late December 1973. The advertising (TV spots etc) would have been organised, recorded etc in 1973. I believe Mike was under contract to Universal Television at the time but I don't believe that would have prevented him from doing a little voice-over work for Warner Brothers.
What do you think? Is there a connection between M*A*S*H and exorcisms *before* that season 5 episode with the priestess and the spirit-post?
Regarding evolution/de-evolution of sitcom characters:
- Penny from The Big Bang Theory definitely evolved, although yes, it was a little forced at times. I had problems with the way the show wound up--after spending nearly an entire year making it clear she didn't want to have children, she becomes pregnant on the last episode and is (presumably) happy about it.
- Not on a sitcom, but you could make an argument for Cordelia Chase on Buffy the Vampire Slayer/Angel.
- Making characters stupider can be a quicker and easier way out. Chrissy on Three's Company had her occasional "blonde moments" in the first year of the show, which was most like its British counterpart Man About the House. By the fourth year, she had become so stupid I wondered how she could make it through a door by herself.
Roger Ebert said no movie is too long if it is good
We also lost Peter Bogdanovich yesterday. What an eclectic collection of films he helmed.
I recently saw a 1970s episode of "The Dick Cavett Show" on either MeTV or Decades, which featured famed directors Robert Altman, Bogdanovich, Mel Brooks and Frank Capra. That's one fantastic group of directors to have on just one episode. It was also worth it to see Altman and Bogdanovich cracking up over Brooks' funny stories and jokes.
@Michael
> Do they need to get permission from rightholders to re-use the name?
Well CBS aired the original and is airing the remake, so permission wasn't needed.
@VincentP You actually want to watch Chuck Lorre shows?
Re character evolution/devolution, a few come to my me:
- In Becker, I think season 2, Linda is suddenly revealed to be super-rich and living in a luxurious apartment given to her by her parents. This drastically changed her character's DNA and made it seem like she was slumming at her job. And her ditziness and laziness at work seemed tainted by her different status. Shawnee Smith still seemed charming in subsequent episodes and the wealth thing was dropped at least as far as I've seen. It just didn't add to her character or dynamics of the show. A similar change was applied to Natalie in Monk when in later seasons it came out that she was incredibly wealthy. That trait was used in some subsequent storylines but it made her seem much less likable and sympathetic.
-Love The Nanny but Fran seemed to become more childish and kind of dumb sometimes after she married Max.
- Haven't seen too much of later seasons of BBT but whenever I watch it and see those recurring scenes performed in the hallways in front of that stupid out-of-order elevator that's never fixed I want to shout at the TV. I don't know if it's some kind of self-congratulatory joke or what but it's not funny and looks like crap.
Friday question: What do you think of Ted Lasso?
Joseph:
Watch "Bob (Hearts) Abishola" -- it will change your mind. From "Mom" on, Lorre series have substantially improved.
I'd say all the characters on Barney Miller grew tremendously as characters over time. Harris started off a little bit jive talking and wasn't even a writer in the first season I think. As the show went on Danny Arnold incorporated more of his own erudite tastes and writing profession into the character and Harris actually got his book published and it was a hit. Wojo was a bit more closer to a Polish stereotype starting out as well as a hot headed muscle bound meat head but actually got wiser and more vulnerable and became the heart of the show. Hal Linden didn't realize that he was the straight man of the show until Hash and from then on he was comfortable doing great work playing straight to the rest of the kooky characters etc. Those are just a few examples but the same thing happened with Yemana, Leavitt, Dietrich and Inspector Luger.
@Spike de Beauvoir While I grew to like Natalie her character always paled by comparison to Sharona and one of the reasons is that while Sharona was relatable as a single mother struggling to raise a growing son with little money, Natalie was more vanilla in personality and not as relatable when it came to being incredibly wealthy. Monk was one of the caseswhere I felt the replacement was a step down from the original character.
I agree, Mom is a great series that kept up the humor and quality throughout it's run. Regarding character development, Tammy (Kristen Johnson) really blossoms in the later episodes. Another wonderful Lorre show is Mike & Molly, it's now on Nick at Nite around 2 or 3 am. Love how Molly quits her grade school teaching job and becomes a successful writer. She collaborates with her mother-in-law Peggy (Rondi Reed) to write a book about her "hardscrabble" life on a farm and it's a great story arc bringing out deeper aspects of both characters.
I think there's a lot of depth in Lorre's shows and characters that's sometimes unrecognized.
@Jim Cheers fan Rebecca became a flat out hilarious character played to perfection by Kirstie and imo she was just more relatable than Diane ever was to me, personally. Rebecca, like Al Bundy both had flaws we can all relate to but at the same time feel better about ourselves because at least our lives aren't nearly as bad as theirs lol.
OT: There's a made for TV movie with Kirstie Alley, Write & Wrong (2007), about an award-winning midlife screenwriter who can't get hired because of ageism in the industry. So she gets her younger nephew (Eric Christian Olsen), a glib car salesman, to pose as her "front" and pitch her ideas. It's a very entertaining film and Kirstie is feisty and clever as the screenwriter. The movie is free on Tubi (there's an alternate title, "And She Was," same movie though).
I think Mr. Moose from Captain Kangaroo showed amazing growth over the final 3 years.
Ken, question for next Friday:
Regarding laugh tracks. If and when they find a way to remove the laugh tracks from old filmed sitcoms from the 60s, how do you think it would affect the shows? I stumbled across an old Hogan's Heroes on METV that was minus a laugh track and looked more like a drama than a comedy. I have MASH on DVD and always watch it without a laugh track. It's just as funny.
Henry Winkler once said that when he guest-starred on the Mary Tyler Moore Show in an early acting gig, the cast shunned him. Based on that experience, he went out of his way to be kind to guest stars on Happy Days, etc.
All I can say is, "Of course it was Betty White."
She's so missed already....
Are you glad that you didn't have to deal with all of the social media and such that goes on in today's society during your involvement with Mash, Cheers, Jefferson's and Frasier, amongst others? Do you think that would have changed things dramatically in the way things were written or how the cast and crew were dealt with?
Good news! I've learned Paramount+ does carry current episodes of Chuck Lorre series. "Bob (Hearts) Abishola" and "B Positive," here I come!
P.S. I was blessed to see Betty White act on a final-season "Hot In Cleveland" episode in 2014. Her comedic timing was remarkable.
You beat me to it.
M.B.
Thank you, Ken. As always, much appreciated.
M.B.
And White Fang revealed hidden depths during their comedy reign-of-terror on Soupy Sales.
Curt: It's not unusual for stars to say early in their careers that they don't want kids and then change their minds as they get older. Julia Roberts and Eddie Murphy are two who come to mind; last time I checked, the latter now has ten.
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"Anonymous Mr Moose said...
I think Mr. Moose from Captain Kangaroo showed amazing growth over the final 3 years."
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Uh, Mr. Levine......we need "Like" buttons installed here, for fun lines we enjoy like this one !! ;-)
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Friday question: I was just reading about Glynis Johns, the beautiful Welsh actress who is now, at 98, the oldest Best Actress Oscar-winner alive (with Olivia De H gone). I never saw the episode of Cheers with her as Diane's mother, but I wonder if you had anything to share? Thx.
@Kyle Burress I know you weren't asking me but if you don't mind indulging my need to put my two cents in, I definitely think that if social media had existed back in the day, especially during the runs of such iconic and edgy content like All In The Family, The Jeffersons, Sanford and Son, In Living Color, Married with Children etc. the classics we all love would've either been cancelled or watered down tremendously due to the pressure networks are getting now from the plague that is social media.
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Friday Question:
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In searching your name on IMDb Mr. Levine, I noticed that there are a number of "Ken Levine's" listed, each one differentiated with a consecutive Roman Numeral. Is there, or isn't there a rule that applies to individuals having the exact same name in the entertainment world......or no, is that something that some just do on their own in order to avoid confusion with others that may have the same name?
For some reason I thought actors were DEFINITELY prohibited from sharing the exact same name, yet in searching a random name on IMDb, for instance, the very generic sounding "Fred Smith", there are a number of actors listed there with the name Fred Smith.
What's the story (morning glory) ?? ;-)
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