OOPS. I ACCIDENTALLY PUBLISHED TWO POSTS TODAY SO TOOK ONE BACK FOR TOMORROW. SOME OF YOU WILL HAVE DEJA VU TOMORROW.
A number of readers have asked “Why do you always point to the success of FRIENDS? Shows like FRASIER and SEINFELD and EVERYBODY LOVE RAYMOND make lots of money too."
And this is true.
But not like FRIENDS.
The fact that I wrote on FRASIER I believe allows me a certain objectivity here. It would be nice to say that the show I was involved with towers above the other, but the truth is FRIENDS is beloved around the world with every generation. FRIENDS gets way higher ratings in syndication than any other sitcom of that era. It just does.
Netflix suffered a big blow when FRIENDS was taken off that platform. The money it commands is much higher than comparable sitcoms.
If you’re picking the “best” sitcom of the ‘90s (a very subjective and perhaps fool's errand) then those other shows are certainly in the conversation. I "objectively" cast my vote for FRASIER. But for sheer “success” — there’s only one clear winner (and I don't get any residuals on it).
Precious few sitcoms are so enduring that their popularity continues decade after decade. I would have to say there are three and possibly a fourth. I LOVE LUCY, MASH, and FRIENDS with GOLDEN GIRLS fast approaching. And some others still draw audiences like THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW, THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW, CHEERS, SEINFELD, FRASIER, EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND, THE BRADY BUNCH, GILLIGAN’S ISLAND, THE OFFICE, 30 ROCK, and I’m sure five or six others. But will they still be around in 2050? I have no idea. But I’m certain I LOVE LUCY, MASH, and FRIENDS will. I hope to write a follow-up post at that time.
52 comments :
For a show that never finished a season higher than 19th in ratings and was 30 or lower in 6 of 9 seasons, KING OF QUEENS reruns still get shown a lot, especially in New York.
I wonder how long this will continue.
When FRIENDS first aired, I was amazed that in the history of television up to that point, there had never been a show with the simple name: FRIENDS!
Ken,
RE: I hope to write a follow-up post at that time.
I hope to read that follow-up post!
John
KOQ is an unappreciated classic - Long live the King! Never saw what made Friends so popular...to each his own I reckon.
I may be in the minority here, but "Frasier" isn't even in the running for best sitcom of the 90s. I think it's overrated. I love "Cheers" and I love Frasier as a character but the show just wasn't as good as its reputation. Maybe it's me, but I find a real disconnect between the praise it gets and the reality (it was a good show though, don't get me wrong!).
I actually think "Friends" is the witty, smart show that should get the accolades that "Frasier" gets. People always dismiss it because it was massively popular and the theme song was overplayed and all that stuff about Aniston's hairdo, but it's a brilliant show in all ways: the writing, the casting, and the direction. Right up there with The Dick Van Dyke Show and Everybody Loves Raymond, two of my favorites.
I never watched "Friends" on Netflix and never understood the hype about that. People do know that it's literally on 20 times every single day, right? (Maybe more people than I think are cord-cutters?)
I'm not so sure about I LOVE LUCY anymore, unfortunately . . . I honestly can't even remember the last time I saw that show. For the longest time, my local NBC would air it at 12:30 in the afternoon before they curiously switched to THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES for a short while . . . I know it's also been on networks like Nick@Nite, TV Land, and Hallmark Channel, but again, I haven't seen it anywhere in the longest time whatsoever.
Nothing on TV at the moment is as entertaining as the cross examination of Amber Heard. Camille Vasquez is badass!
"I haven't seen it anywhere in the longest time whatsoever", there are other countries in the world besides the US that airs I Love Lucy. A local channel in Hamilton, Ontario Canada airs it everyday, has been for two years along with Van Dyke, Griffith,My Three Sons and The Brady Bunch. Frasier is beloved in the UK
One thing that struck me recently watching FRIENDS is the large number of episodes in later seasons that were effectively clips shows packaged as new episodes with flashbacks. I wonder if those were extra episodes ordered by NBC to make more money off the show.
underrated 90s comedy:
Third Rock
Surreal, unlike any other sitcom, except perhaps Green Acres.
CBS is airing regular prime time specials of colorized "I Love Lucy" episodes that do quite well in the ratings, then they're sold on DVD and streaming. They look amazingly good, partly because Desi had the foresight to demand that the show be put on film, not kinescoped.
I like "Friends," which I tend to have on a background cable loop late at nights when I'm working. But I get to the point where I can't stand it anymore and need a break (usually during one of the insufferable Ross/Rachel breakup/reunion episodes), then I switch to the Hallmark Channel's "Golden Girls," "Frasier" and "Cheers" lineup. Seeing them so many times back to back has convinced me that "Friends" wasn't nearly as witty as the others, but I think people just like the characters and think of them as actual friends. It's like a warm sweater: not nearly as sharp or sophisticated as a tux, but more comfortable. Most people can imagine hanging out with Phoebe or Joey, but not Sophia, Niles or Carla.
As for what will still be around 50 years from now, I vote for "The Andy Griffith Show" for similar reasons. There are some outdated attitudes and the best episodes are in black and white, but the characters are so likable and real, the writing so good, and the setting so inviting that I think as the world gets more modern, fast-paced and irritating, the longing to return to Mayberry where friends and family still matter will only get stronger.
BTW, RIP to Maggie Peterson, who played Charlene Darling on TAGS. She died Sunday at 81.
I remember when "Friends" was actually on, and the networks (especially NBC) were desperate to duplicate its success. The result was lots of dumb shows about hot young urbanites with too-nice apartments, struggling at various hip or glamorous jobs, who were endlessly pursuing will-they-won't-they romantic relationships with each other. The magic in "Friends" itself was in the cast, along with some very funny writing -- all the relationship drama, which is what most people remember about the show now, was actually pretty annoying in retrospect. So the right lesson -- which the networks never seemed to learn -- is to get (yes, attractive, but also) funny actors, and get them to say and do funny things. If you just stick a bunch of hunks and babes in giant lofts and web-content offices, you're missing the point.
I think the real reason that Friends is such a hit is that it emulates the most social time of most peoples lives, when they're in college. That was the time when your friends would just drop by. Or you would just drop by their place and hang out for no reason. Once you get out of college that never happens again. You get married, have kids and everything is formalized. You have to schedule dates to be with friends, you just can't show up. And plus in college everybody was young and beautiful.
I just never "got" Friends. I've seen maybe four episodes, but more likely only three. Just never did a thing for me. (Nor did Seinfeld, of which I've seen three episodes. But then, I never found Jerry Seinfeld anywhere in anything, more than mildly whimsical or slightly amusing at best, under any circumstances. Not a man I associate with belly-laughs. He's tepid.) Whereas, there is not an episode of Frasier I've seen fewer than four times, and some way more than that.
"Anonymous said...
underrated 90s comedy:
Third Rock
Surreal, unlike any other sitcom, except perhaps Green Acres."
No, it was not "Surreal." "Surrealism" has an actual meaning and does not apply merely because something is weird. 3rd Rock was standard sit-com science-fiction. I agree that it is an under-rated 90s comedy. I found it hilarious. I recently revisited a few episodes and found that it holds up, mostly due to the inspiredly insane performance of John Lithgow.
But to say that that rehash, albeit a funny rehash, of My Favorite Martian, Mork & Mindy and Alf was "unlike any other sitcom" is just plain nuts. It would be like calling Ghosts "unlike any other sitcom" as though Topper and all the other ghost sit-coms never existed. (And Ghost ain't surrealism either. Now Monty Python's Flying Circus, especially the animations, and Ernie Kovak's TV shows, they were surrealism!)
My wife and I are re-watching all of FRASIER on Hulu, and we are consistently amazed and how smart the writing is, along with being laugh-out-loud funny. There is nothing currently on the air that compares with it, and I fear there may never be again. It anything, FRASIER is criminally underrated now.
Watch Friends without the annoying laugh track. There are examples on YouTube. It’s not funny.
@Joseph Scarbrough: I LOVE LUCY is still around. Currently CBS is using it as a lure to get subscribers to the Paramount Plus streaming service by making it the only place you can stream the entire series. Other streaming services have it, but only in various "best of" configurations with limited episode selections. Or you can pick up the complete series on DVD at Walmart for $40 bucks. (Or FRIENDS for $50 or MASH for $50 or ANDY GRIFFITH for $75.)
Most of the shows Ken refers to are readily available on streaming or on DVD. If you can get, say, MASH or CHEERS complete and uncut on disc or streaming why in the world would anyone want to watch them on broadcast TV, sloppily butchered and speeded-up to get their running times down to something like 18 minutes so stations can squeeze in more commercials featuring old has-been celebrities pushing cheap insurance or services that provide discreetly-packaged adult diapers by mail.
The show whose longevity I failed to anticipate is THE GOLDEN GIRLS. I saw it weekly in first run because my mother just loved it, and while I liked it, I never imagined it to be one of those shows who popularity would endure decade after decade. It seems to have done that, though. My daughters, both in their twenties, tell me that the show continues to be very popular with their age group. Which isn't bad for a series that ended thirty years ago.
Have mixed the emotions about "Friends." Never watched it much on NBC, but have caught up with it in reruns. Indeed, it was often well-written and well-acted, and some moments have made me laugh out loud. (Ross trying to flirt with the pizza delivery girl by discussing gas is a classic.) But there are other times when the show is so adolescent, it really makes me cringe, especially since I'm roughly the same age as the the six principals. The too-frequent pop culture references are tiresome, and if I never hear "Smelly Cat" again, I'll be a happy man. The audience shrieking over every kiss soon wears thin, and I've never really bought Tom Selleck and Courtney Cox as a couple. The show's popularity may be undisputed, but of the two monosyllabic "Fr" shows that had near-concurrent runs on NBC, the sophistication of "Frasier" will always win out over "Friends."
I've never seen an episode of FRIENDS and never felt compelled to see one. I don't know why. Maybe the promos just turned me off.
I gave "Friends" a try in its earlier days, just to see what all the fuss was about. Sitcoms that rely on "the Stupid Character" never impress me and the early "Friends" had two of them in Joey and Phoebe. No thanks.
Time passed and the fuss only grew for the show. I gave the show another shot and was pleased to see the writing had matured enough that the Stupid Characters were now more "Lovable Ditzes". I watched it, I enjoyed it, and I had a few major belly laughs. But, watch it in reruns again? We circle around to "no thanks".
I can only presume "Friends" has an appeal due to its continuing "soap opera" format of who is smooching who and what relationship will blossom. It's a credit to the writers/actors that they created characters viewers engage with to a level they care about who is smooching who.
Okay, Ken, I haven't been reading this blog for very long and I'm still unsure of some of the ground rules. For example, do we get extra points for assuring you that the only sitcoms we watch are MASH, CHEERS and FRASIER?
One sitcom that I used to see on every requisite list of "Best TV Shows", but now seems to be fading in relevance, is ALL IN THE FAMILY. I don't see reruns of it nearly as much as I used to, nor do I see as much discussion about it in general as I did in the past. Maybe the in-your-face nature of it just hasn't aged all that well (and we get plenty of that in real life nowadays). Contrast that with the staying power of THE GOLDEN GIRLS, which also dealt with plenty of topical themes, but did so without all the yelling.
As you said, everyone's opinion is going to be different. I watched one episode of "Friends" and never saw another. I am blue-collar and thought they were rich and stuck-up. Nobody working at McDonalds to pay tuition there, Series I used to like that I re-watched - "Everybody Loves Raymond" - I don't it like anymore. Just about every episode is Raymond complaining about how he doesn't get enough sex from Deborah who is holding down the house. All they do is complain about each other - it is a version of the Heard-Depp trial. I think there were a few episodes where they actually secretly recorded each other - who does that? Seinfeld hasn't held up well IMO. I still like "Coach", although I cringe when a comedy tries to do a serious episode. I have enough drama in my life - it's a comedy - make me laugh. I don't think "The Middle" ever did a serious episode, to it's credit.
@D McEwan
surrealism definition : a style of art and literature stressing the subconscious or nonrational significance of imagery arrived at by automatism or the exploitation of chance effects, unexpected juxtapositions, etc.
I would classify Third Rock as fitting that definition even if you don't
(contra to your opinion, it is not My Favorite Martian or Mork or Alf which are conventional sitcoms with alien characters. Sorry you can't see the difference)
" KING OF QUEENS reruns still get shown a lot, especially in New York. "
That's interesting! I'm in the area and never thought about if the local syndication channels are region dependent. I wonder what else they show around the country.
What is crazy to me is that FRIENDS crosses not only the decades but also generations in its appeal. I watched the show avidly when pregnant in the 90s with my now 28 year-old-daughter. Today, she and her friends can quote more lines verbatim than me. Somehow, even the clothing and hair on FRIENDS is still "cool," and no one seems to notice and make fun of the huge hand held phones with antennas. FRIENDS continues to be relatable year after year, and that is a huge part of its appeal. Love and good humor mixed with the challenges of life never gets old.
I love Frasier! You just cannot not be amused by those pompous Crane brothers. Was that the first time Kelsey and David met? They were perfect together. My neighbors just hung out with Kelsey last Saturday in a Atlantic City casino where he promoted his beer. Janice B.
I don't understand how people can watch "Friends". Every episode is exactly the same, and the whining and arguing and sniping is so frickin' annoying.
@Spencer FRIENDS had a live audience, it only used a laugh track for sweetening.
The only episode I ever saw waa "The one with the Princess Leia costume". But I have seen that episode 47 times.
@ Michael
"Fraiser" did NOT have a bunch of "clip shows" in the final seasons. Huh? There are a few episodes which cleverly refer to earlier seasons, with new content.
I've watched every season at least 50 times. A day doesn't go by, without viewing an episode.
"The MTM Show" has never gotten the widespread exposure that it deserves. After its initial run, it wasn't until TVLand picked it up, that it was seen by a large audience again. And something like 15 years had passed. Every time I introduce it to a younger person, they fall in love.
"The Golden Girls" is another of my favorites. I've easily seen each episode 200 times.
I rarely watched "Friends" in the 90s. And don't watch it now.
It terms of sheer merchandise, there are only three series that are larger than life, "I Love Lucy," "Friends," and "Golden Girls." I have noticed all kinds of merchandise from all three series. Nothing from MASH. Sorry Ken.
I enjoy Friends but sometimes wonder why it's still so watchable. I think a lot of credit is due to the clever writing, expert comedic timing of the hugely talented actors, and physical comedy. Also the girl power and mutual support of Monica, Rachel, and Phoebe. If I think about it too much, there's a lot that kind of irks me: the shoddy treatment and ex-communication of outsiders, nonexistent chemistry between Ross and Rachel and Ross's denigration of Rachel during their extended break (he didn't deserve her coming back to him in the finale), the g.d. monkey story arc, and the gals' shiny hair. And there's a dig at Sally Rogers being not so much pretty while the gang watches the DVD show that's unforgivable. But the overall charm of the show and originality transcend all that somehow and it's fun to watch.
I agree about the excellence of 3rd Rock and Jane Curtain is so great in the show.
But one of the most underrated shows is Mad About You. G
Fantastic writing, so many little homages to classic films and wonderfully evokes 90s NYC.
Friday Question: Do directors resent when a series actor directs one of the episodes?
@mcdufferton: Actually there wasnamed FRIENDS. It was on ABC JINGLE the 1970s and was about three 10 year old kids. Jill Whelan later on The Love Boat and two boys, one black, so more racially integrated than the more famous show.
Thoroughly agree about the unwarranted Rose Marie dig on "Friends," which I saw recently. Smug and disgraceful.
Maybe someday I will watch an episode of "Friends".
Friends premiered when I was 11 so I probably didn't get some of the humor, although I loved Seinfeld and Cheers at that age. Go figure. Anyway, I never really got into Friends but did watch the finale and was genuinely happy for Ross and Rachel despite not knowing their history. I also watched the reunion on HBO Max and have seen a few clips on Facebook. It's a genuinely funny show, even though I probably still won't binge watch anytime soon.
As for I Love Lucy, I recognize some dialogue or scenarios are dated now, but I wonder if it doesn't air as much anymore because networks realize the performative social media backlash over outdated norms just isn't worth the trouble?
Interestingly enough, I haven't seen 30 Rock anywhere in at least five years. That's one of my favorites of the last 20 years. Very witty show.
@Patrick Kelly
Wow! Thank you for letting me know about the existence of an earlier, unrelated FRIENDS series! Never heard of it, nor heard it ever mentioned anywhere until now!
@Pat Reeder
RE:
"As for what will still be around 50 years from now, I vote for 'The Andy Griffith Show' for similar reasons. There are some outdated attitudes and the best episodes are in black and white, but the characters are so likable and real, the writing so good, and the setting so inviting that I think as the world gets more modern, fast-paced and irritating, the longing to return to Mayberry where friends and family still matter will only get stronger."
WIIIIILLOUGHBY!...
"Friends". When it started I thought it was like a car that needed a tune-up but as it aged I thought it was brilliantly funny. Towards the end it seems like they were struggling for topics and the comedy [to me at least] seemed forced. I guess I liked Chandler the best, his sarcastic remarks make me think some writer must have been secretly watching me when I was about their age. Only everybody called me a smart-ass, not sarcastic.
"3rd Rock From The Sun". Catch the re-runs on Cozi and there are several shows that I missed when they first aired. Still can make me belly laugh. Casting on that show was absolutely the best.
"Andy Griffith Show". Liked it when first aired but even then it seemed too "hickish" for me. Hey, I grew up in the South and while there were elements of it that were true, some were way, way over the top. But that being said, when my parents moved to an even more rural area of the South, a couple of stations there showed an hour of it each day, one ran it one hour and they could flip to the next channel that showed another hour of it. Guess it was required viewing, almost like a religion. No one outside at all until the show was over then out they came. Didn't matter where you went...bar, grocery store, barber, tire repair shop, etc.....that damn show was on every TV in the place.
"Golden Girls". Not shown in my area any more that I can find but watched it when first aired and again, belly laughs.
"Frasier". Like it better than "Cheers". David Hyde Pierce stole that show in my opinion. Brilliant and still holds up today.
"Green Acres". Still, to this day, makes me laugh especially when they sorta break the fourth wall. Opening credit gags and stuff like that still make me laugh.
"King of Queens". Just could never get into that show for some reason. Even though Jerry Stiller was on it, just didn't do anything for me. Didn't think it was that funny.
"Just Shoot Me". That show was hilarious. "Wet my pants" laughter sometimes. Second best thing George Segal ever did in my book. Wish they'd show repeats of that.
"Seinfeld". Sometimes I thought it was gut bustingly funny, other time "meh". If "Kramer" hadn't blown up his career post-Seinfeld, I'd like to have seen him in something else.
"Dick Van Dyke Show". Amusing, very funny sometimes but I would have loved to seen Buddy & Sally spun off into their own show. Sometimes they were the best part of it.
I went through a huge Friends phase in high school. I still like a lot of it, especially the cast chemistry and it’s famous bottle episodes, but the soap opera-ish arcs are wearing. I also agree the final season was quite forced compared to earlier seasons, and the character exaggeration was obnoxious.
Overall, I tend to prefer Frasier today, but not every episode. Never cared for the dating episodes that much, except for Laura Linney at the end.
I finally watched Wings a few years ago after knowing about it for ages and fell in love with it. Maybe not a Zeitgeist show but fantastic comfort food. So underrated.
And the sad thing is that Friends is basically just a white Living Single, and became super successful off the back of Living Single. I don't think Friends is a bad show, just a completely overrated and generic one that I used to watch in high school but haven't since. Off of your last comment, I highly believe that shows like The Andy Griffith Show, The Golden Girls, Cheers, Seinfeld, Frasier, Everybody Loves Raymond, and others not mentioned like Sanford and Son, The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, Barney Miller, The Honeymooners, All In The Family etc. will all still be just as timeless and still around somewhere in 2050 and beyond. Quality never goes away.
@Kendall Rivers - But will Earth (as we know it) still be around in 2050 ? I have my doubts.
I always felt the secret of FRIENDS was its broad appeal. You either were them, remember being them or want to be them when you grow up. Like Bugs Bunny it can keep recruiting a new audience of young viewers. Also it was more like the AVENGERS than one would thin. Each of them had a "super power". Also it was very white.
"Anonymous said...
@D McEwan
I would classify Third Rock as fitting that definition even if you don't
(contra to your opinion, it is not My Favorite Martian or Mork or Alf which are conventional sitcoms with alien characters. Sorry you can't see the difference)"
Third Rock was a conventional sitcom with alien characters, just four aliens instead of only one. Sorry you see a non-existent difference. And it is NOT "surrealism."
Hey, you got a name? Dissing me from anonymity is the act of a coward. My comments are signed with my real name.
Lighten up, Francis. Scott Steinberg is my real name.
Friends a well-produced, very well-cast show. I prefer Frasier, but I understand why Friends is so popular.
Also, remember that quality does not always equal longevity. The Mary Tyler Moore Show did not have nearly the same syndication afterlife as The Brady Bunch did. But The Brady Bunch was a color family sitcom syndicated in the 1970s when there weren’t many color family sitcoms available for rerun. And it was appealing in its own way. So it has had a very good run. But it’s now fading since younger viewers haven’t been exposed to it.
I Love Lucy is also fading, but that shouldn’t surprise anyone after 70 years. CBS hasn’t run the colorized episodes in several years now. And broadcast reruns have been shunted off from MeTV to the lesser-seen Decades network. It won’t ever fade entirely because it’s a classic, but it’s not as visible as it was even 10 years ago.
"Scott Steinberg said...
Lighten up, Francis. Scott Steinberg is my real name
Who is "Francis"?
It's a meme, D. McEwan.
I really enjoy Living Single too, though it falters a bit in the last two seasons. Kooky but grounded. Erika Alexander is brilliant, I wish she'd been cast in more comedies. The cast has since discussed how the network pulled resources away from LS for the newer show Friends. It seems T.C. Carson was let go during the last season because he tried to stand up for the show in meetings with producers. He recently did some extended interviews about his experience, I think they're on YouTube. Chemistry between Erika and T.C in their twisty romance is much more fun than what was supposedly happening with Ross and Rachel.
30 Rock, really?
Don't get me wrong, I LOOOOVE the show; it's my favorite sitcom ever, but I don't see it having the enduring quality among the masses as your other examples. When it came to five day a week syndication here in the Philadelphia area, it lasted just one year. Despite winning carloads of Emmy's, some of the sharpest rapid fire jokes network TVs ever seen and having a stunning list of A-list celebrity guest stars (Oprah AND Tom Hanks?!), the show never seemed to get the love and recognition I thought it deserved.
Thoughts?
Yes, "Frasier" has two syllables. I meant the two "Fr" shows with one-word titles that had near-concurrent runs on NBC--"Friends" and "Frasier."
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