But I’ve noticed that things are starting to change. Perhaps it’s a reflection of the dark times, but there is a meanness that has crept into the comments section. And I’m not talking about trolls. These are normal readers who lately have been attacking each other, often times over really stupid shit (like correct usage of punctuation). They use the C word (I’m sorry I accidentally let that one slip through), they’re hostile, and they take every opportunity to correct me or each other over nonsense.
Now that I’ve sold a cartoon to THE NEW YORKER I’ve had several of you ask me to share some of my cartoons on this blog. No thank you. Why? I learned my lesson years ago when I wrote a spec DICK VAN DYKE SHOW episode for fun for this blog. At the time I specifically said I don’t want any critiques. Part of the exercise was to see what an actual DICK VAN DYKE SHOW writer would say and I promised to print his reaction verbatim — good or bad (happily it was very good). But I wasn’t looking for audience feedback. It wasn’t a script I was going to submit anywhere. Nor was I going to rewrite.
And yet, I got a flood of reader feedback. They didn’t like this, they didn’t like that. I should have done this instead. I should have done that. This joke didn’t work for some. That bit wasn’t funny. You get the idea.
So I know that even if I post cartoons and say I want no feedback I’m going to get fifty readers saying they don’t like the shading or the perspective or the anatomy is wrong or the joke would be better if I did a caption they suggested. I have cartoon mentors whose expert opinions I value highly and send everything. But to put my toons on this blog in this current atmosphere — I would be walking into a propeller.
The comment section is supposed to be fun. And civil. If I say I liked a movie and you didn’t, that’s fine. You’re free to dislike anything I like (okay, except maybe Natalie Wood). But to point out that you don’t like a movie because of how someone reacted to rape charges — you’re going to be deleted. And frankly, I don’t like deleting you ever and yet I’m doing it more and more. Even when I agree with your opinion (it’s just the tone).
So it’s time to reboot. Time to start playing nice together. Above all, this is a humor blog. You all know where I stand politically, but I’d say 90% of the time I keep politics out of it. And if you disagree with me politically you’re welcome to leave and find a blog that shares your views. God knows, they’re out there. My feelings won’t be hurt. But if you’re sticking around, just know I welcome your comments as long as (a) you leave a name and (b) you show the same respect to others as you would want them to show you.
I don’t think that’s too much to ask, do you? It's a new year, a new beginning. Let's start 2022 off right.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
Ken
66 comments :
Amen.
Seconded!
Because I see it every time I land on the page, I tend to forget about it, also take a look at the Earl Pomerantz blog: https://earlpomerantz.blogspot.com/
The worst thing about it is that you know how it ends, but what's before is still wonderful.
Do you think that a comment section reflects the attitude and tone of the blog's author? Because I think you're fairly biting--usually I think it's funny but not 100% of the time. Of course, we aren't that funny, even if we're trying to be...well, what do you expect from a bunch of people who aren't humorists for a living?
As for the politics, it sure is your blog. But 90% sounds low to me.
Dammit--I said the wrong thing in the other comment haha. 90% sounds *high* to me; I think you're too political too often (or at least too enthusiastic about knocking the other side).
Bear in mind I'm not saying that as a Republican, I'm saying that as someone who is sick of the dichotomy and the two burly guys who are both being you over in the shower (metaphorically speaking).
As time goes by, I keep wondering if the worst feature of the Internet is its default anonymity...
We are stuck with it now and forever, of course. So I'm always grateful when a call for civil discourse is made by the powers that be, a nice gentle reminder that we all should do our best to be a good human. Thank you, Ken.
Well-spoken. Sadly, it could be akin to a school crossing guard blowing his whistle to slow down a car chase out of "Fast and Furious"
My interpretation of the internet (with Twitter the champion platform) is essentially a end-of-school pool party for 8-year olds. Every one is hyper and shouting at the top of their lungs "LOOK AT ME!" When mom fails to stop reading her book and enjoying the sun, they each shout all the louder for attention.
And I do apologize if I've contributed to the prickly stress in any way.
I've learned from experience that some things are better left unsaid, especially nitpicking. A few months ago, I got booted from a Discord chat server for a YouTube content creator's Patreon supporters because I nitpicked a line in an upcoming video that patrons had early access to. There are videos by other creators that I don't like and choose not to watch for one reason or another, but I know not to air my grievances in the video's comment thread. I also know I'm better off not commenting on a political social media post I disagree with. No one's mind will be changed, so why bother? To be fair, I'm right-of-center politically, which is why I quit posting about politics. I have too many left-wing friends that I don't want to lose. Putting aside my differences, I have common interests, be it sports, comedy, game shows, video games, music, media production (I'm in radio), jingles, photography, or running.
I went off on a tangent (as I'm wont to do), but my point is I try to keep it civil and don't rock the boat, especially in comment threads like this. Thank you, Ken, for all you've done and continue to do.
Amen, Ken, amen. There's no need to be vulgar.
oh man, so sorry to see you have to post something like this and I'm sure there will be response to this comment, but I agree with your stance, this is supposed to be fun and funny. I come here to see what your thoughts are, your opinions (whether I agree with them or not (spoilers, I do)). Please continue to do the great job you've been doing and navigate these times as you have! And for the record, love the Natalie Wood pics!!!
My mother told me if you can't say anything nice do not say anything at all.
Hint received loud and clear. Apologies.
Comments on blogs should fun and civil, I couldn't agree more. And nobody likes armchair quarterbacks who spout "well, I would have done it this way..." Blah blah di fucking blah.
I do however hope that you continue to share creative content. The majority here are your fans.
I appreciate your call for civility! (I hope that's a real word)!
There's not enough of it out there...
Well said Ken...
Bryan Simmons
You have my sympathy Ken! Dealing with all the petty garbage that post, to say nothing of the ugly trolling, must be an unpleasant--and unpaid!--task. You don't get to see human nature at its best. I appreciate the time and effort it takes to keep some level of civility in the comment section. An unmoderated forum starts to resemble an unflushed toilet pretty quickly.
I honestly can say that I have not noticed much negativity in the comments here. I suppose perhaps that this is because of all the horrible negativity I encounter in others areas of the internet I visit. I don't even go onto my local newspaper comments sections anymore. It is nothing but awful comments that seemingly never fail to bring politics into it even if the article is about the first newborn baby of the year. I think the most upset I've gotten from the comments here is when a fellow Gen-Xer claimed to speak for all Gen-Xers, which he certainly did not. I was surprised by the c-word making it through. But it was associated with the Orange disgrace, so I thought that must have made it not so bad. I have to say, checking this blog on a daily basis is something I truly enjoy. The comments are always (usually) quite interesting.
On a side note: Anyone know where MASH is available to watch unedited? I decided I wanted to start binge watching it, but can only find it to rent or purchase.
Thank-you Mr. Levine, for sharing your thoughts and talents with us all.
It's tough.
I've been running a website for 22 years with free-flowing stories, blogs, forums, and comments. All but the stories are subject to three simple rules that help me maintain and justify my efforts to keep things civil.
Rule 1: Keep it friendly. Which means no personal attacks, and no name-calling even of people who are not in the room.
Rule 2: Give the benefit of the doubt. Don't assume that others are being offensive on purpose.
Rule 3: It's not about you. Don't take it personally. Remember that everyone is the star of their own story, so it's about them.
I delete posts fairly frequently but really not that often, and in 22 years, I've only banned one person permanently. They admitted that they had joined the site just to prove they could get me to ban them permanently, so I obliged. (Note use of singular they.)
It's a process.
Sadly, we live in a time when everyone seems pissed off. The trend to outright cruelty both online and in real life is such a sadness. I always try to be kind.
Bravo!
Ken, you say that if we don't share your political views we can find a blog that does. I hope you're not implying that it's the more conservative readers who are being un-civil. Because you have very, very few conservative commenters.
Get out of my head!!!!A
I'm on Facebook and Twitter and I'm a moderator in a group as well as a frequent contributor.
Agreed, people nit-pick over the dumbest crap, and feel the need to insert themselves into a conversation for the dumbest of reasons.
Example-somebody is selling something. People feel the need to deride the item, tell the seller he's on crack, and in my case attack me (I chose not to list a price in the advertisement, opting to discuss the financials in private messaging). One of the comments? "He must really make shitty pizza if he won't list a price". Huh? How does that even pertain?
Politically people toss out a lot of catch words that are meaningless (snowflake and Karen are two that show up really inappropriately) and it goes on and on.
Yes, I agree with you totally, and more importantly, it's YOUR blog, we are guests, you make the rules and if we are lousy guests we don't need to enjoy your hospitality. As always, you are one of the bright spots of my day. Thank you Ken.
Well said! Totally agree with you!
I have a work colleague who is on the opposite political spectrum of me. Yet, we share a love for all things sports and try to stay away from politics. I call him a grump. He calls me a snowflake. On rare occasions, the conversation drifts into political waters, so we either keep it light or change topics. We certainly aren't going to change each other's minds, so why ruin an otherwise perfectly good relationship. It can be done, but it takes work.
Well this is surprising to me. Since the Blog creator is very smart, very talented and has a sharp sense of humor I thought that all it’s followers had those same traits in order to appreciate and put forth the effort to follow Ken and his most entertaining and thought provoking thoughts. It would seem, sadly, this isn’t true from Ken’s statements. No, I don’t think Ken’s rare political comments are too many not are they inappropriate. Humor, satire and politics go hand-in hand. Keep up the great work, Ken.
Chuck, if you have Hulu, they have the entire series unedited. Beware of the laugh track.
Ken, sorry your fun blog has had some nastiness infused in it. I'll still read and respond in kind. As long as you don't insult banjo players, we'll be fine
SueK2001
I say this as a longtime fan and a politically liberal blue state guy: I agree with Derek up above. The tone is set by the author, just like the tone on the soundstage is set by the star, right? And you've been outright venomous for a while now. It's the reason I don't check in as much as I used to in years previous.
I don’t see the venom from Ken at all (aside from occasional direct swipes at a venomous former President who begs for it).
He’s direct about what he thinks but doesn’t seem inclined to take down other artists… in fact, he comes across like a mensch.
Just me two cents.
I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. And please, call him "Dick Van Non-Binary."
If I DID critique the DVD script, I didn't see that you wanted no comments. But you're right. I am very interested in politics, but I expect to see it discussed in certain places. Even on Ross Porter's Facebook page, people will make political comments or get mean. For heaven's sake! That isn't why we're here! It comes up in country music forums (yeah, I like country music, get over it), and sometimes it has a place. But usually it's someone just determined to demonstrate their stupidity. And they succeed, very well.
By the way, I have now read Dick Van Dyke's autobiography, and another book he did, Get Moving. They're worth your time. And the second book includes a conversation with Carl Reiner that's just great, but that's redundant, right?
"outright venomous", "fairly biting" "political"
Don't change a thing, Ken, all a part of the package - and much better than "safe"
The sadly departed Pomerantz was one of your better podcast guests. A good guy, and true to "being the best me, I can be".
You do well to follow this, yourself - edges and all. FWIW, much more interesting than the Earl blog.
You are also a good moderator.
I've occasionally pushed back on some dreary conventional sentiment (or another) but I don't think you've ever blocked any of it. Addressing the content without insult seems to work for you - which I appreciate.
LOL! I remember the Dick Van Dyke spec you wrote. It was very funny and did a good job of recapturing the feel of the original series. You stated very clearly, right up front, that you didn't want feedback and criticism. Despite that, though, the comments got immediately derailed into arguments about whether or not it was appropriate for Rob to mention his prostate, and would people say "kiosk" in 1965, and would the network have allowed the word "pissant," and isn't the plot too similar to "The Redcoats Are Coming," and aren't we past the point where it's appropriate for Buddy to be body-shaming Mel over his baldness, and isn't the tone too snarky for 1965, and oh my god please don't tell me we're getting the 'women drivers' stereotype, and I think it's too out of character for Alan to buy Laura a car, and take out the strippers because they're too racy for this series, and I don't know Ken I think this joke needs a stronger payoff, and I rewrote the ending to this scene Ken because what you wrote isn't funny enough, and on and on and on and on. And you kept saying that you were not asking for nor did you want feedback. And you kept getting tons of it, anyway, most of it nit-picky and irrelevant, and people asking, again and again, "Well, if you don't want criticism, why are you posting it?"
So not sharing your New Yorker cartoon contributions? I totally understand why.
When people have found out that you're a professional comedy writer, have they tended to do the feedback and criticism thing in real life? Telling you what would have made "Frasier" funnier, and sure everybody says this "MASH" episode is a classic but let me tell you what's wrong with it, and why couldn't you guys have made Carla a lesbian? Why the homophobia? And so on.
I agree with you comments and, sadly, see it happening all over. Just look at the increase in the number of problems with passengers on airlines, for one example. I also see it in my office- more people than ever are rude, or angry. It's gottenprogressively worse over the past 30 years. Unfortunately, I don't see it getting better any time soon.
I second the motion. This has been a nice place to visit for a long time. Please, everyone, let's keep it that way.
Bravo Ken. I used to come here to escape the daily crud. I love posts about everything except baseball (not a fan) and I prefer to read rather than listen, so I rarely listen to the podcasts.
To new beginnings...
All 12 seasons of MASH are available with a basic Hulu subscription (about $7 a month). I noticed that The Golden Palace (sequel to The Golden Girls) just popped up too.
I think you’re one of the commenters Ken’s talking about.
I didn't comment on your New Yorker cartoon.
But -- congratulations on that. I know (as a longtime reader) that this fulfilled a deeply held ambition for you.
As for comments -- I'm commenting in my guise as an anonymous blogger. I also operate a site in my actual name. I use comment moderation more rigorously than you have so far especially on my 'real life' site -- the best explanation for stringent use of this feature came, as I remember it, from another Californian named Ken, Ken White of Popehat (now on Substack). As I recall, he said (paraphrasing) that his site was like his living room and he only let people in who would not defecate on his floor. Which seems reasonable.
Anonymous or pseudonymous publications are a great American tradition -- the United States probably wouldn't have been able to adopt a Constitution but for the efforts of "Publius" (the pen name used by the authors of the Federalist Papers, Messrs. Hamilton, Madison, and Jay). Younger readers will probably have heard of Hamilton, at least.
But anonymity is not an excuse for foul, hateful, mean-spirited comments. Maybe we can all raise the tone of the Intertubes... one site at a time.
Your car, your radio station.
As for the DVanD script, it wasn't abundantly clear about no comments. I only saw that after you reprimanded people who posted with comments. I was more focuses on script, and missed the part about saying nothing. My bad.
In future, if you post something (say a drawing, knitting, recipe) and don't want responses, turn it off on that topic. Easy to do. Some people have hard time holding opinions. By some I mean.....I'm not a robot
I want to make a joke to support your position but I fear being labeled a non-woke, racially insensitive, cultural appropriator or some thing like that.
One thing I have learned is that sarcasm and irony do not work on the internet.
Oh well; whatever, the comet is heading our way so fuck it...
You go girl!
Ken, this is really good news to hear from you IMHO. Thanks.
In a blog post, I responded to someone else's post about black people in advertising. I have gotten the ugliest, most bigoted comments to that one post over a nearly four-year period. And I approve the comments because I think it reflects badly on them. But also informs what sort of yahoos there are.
A few years back, I had a blog on the local newspaper's platform. Occasionally, I'd write the exact same post on both sites. The newspaper site of course drew far more comments, but also a lot more bile. So I'm happy in my little niche.
As for your comments, I think it's obvious: your blog, your rules.
In the fourth sentence of your first paragraph, you should have said "Oftentimes" instead of "Often times.."
That said, I completely agree with you, Ken.
The comments on this post are some of the funniest I have read. I don't mean that in a bad way, I really don't, but you basically said both "keep it civil", that sometimes people comment on things they shouldn't comment on, and you don't always want feedback / critique on how to do it differently. And instead of saying, "We hear ya!", the comments are a long litany of comments about turn right, turn left, you were driving, stop here, keep going, and every other back-seat driving possible. My favourite of all was "You don't want feedback or critique, so you should do this instead."
I literally was crying at a couple. Absolutely satirical perfection, without even trying. Even those I agree or disagree with above, just reading them by stepping back to look at the content after that post was hysterical. Plus we had Dick Van Non-binary thrown in, how could I not be laughing???
In the meantime, Ken, how about we move on to a Friday question? Or an idea for a whole post? My topic idea is "What can you do with a used script?" And I don't mean firewood. Some sites are experimenting (like Realm) with new stories on old shows (Jessica Jones, for example, or Orphan Black) like audio books but also in written text (like an ebook). Do you think there would be any appetite for continued stories of MASH or Cheers (ignoring licensing for the moment) or even Volunteers 2? Production costs of sitcoms would be too high, but what about the equivalent of narrated versions or radio versions?
As for the original post, "We hear ya, Captain!".
PolyWogg
This just in: Canadian singer R. Dean Taylor ("Indiana Wants Me") might not be dead https://socialtelecast.com/is-r-dean-taylor-dead-or-alive-what-happened-to-canadian-singer-death-hoax-explained/
Now that you have a cartoon in the New Yorker, I want to suggest—entirely in jest—that you use their delightfully antiquated spelling for "coöperation."
I think "coöperation" went away because typewriters don't have "ö" keys, but maybe I'm being naïve.
I was going to attempt humor by leaving a sarcastic comment. Ken would get the joke. But too many readers might misinterpret it. That's why I often include a "just kidding" to my comments. It's just that Ken and I have done improv together, so he knows my sense of humor.
I never try to be mean, rude or disrespectful to other commenters. But to be honest sometimes they really piss me off. And I'm sure I do the same to them. You can be sure that I've held my tongue more times than not. I have even posted apologies when I think I've gone too far.
I'll try to do better in the future.
As for not honoring your requests....Ken, you're a dad. How many times did you tell your kids not to touch something only to see it become a magnet for their little fingers?
M.B.
No matter the platform you are eventually going to find the type of comments Ken talks about. It is bound to happen when there are 100 comments or more. It is too bad, because there is a lot of misinformation that gets out there about almost every subject. You tube might be the worst when it comes down comments even when they are not derogatory. They even took down the number of dislikes. This seems like a rather stupid idea.
Unmoderated comment sections are the worst simply because some people live to the loudest troll under the bridge, and if you let them, they never let up.
I'm with you 100%. We need more civility, not less in these crazy times.
Kudos to this post, as well as the comments here.
I personally think you set a very humane tone on your blog, which is one reason why I keep coming back. I don't mind when you get angry, because it's rare. And I like that you have a personality. You're kind, but not bland.
Off topic, but: Congratulations! Wings was an answer on Jeapordy tonight.
😍 We should all spell "coöperation" this way. 😍
The term for the symbol, by the way, is diaeresis. It's used to indicate that two consecutive vowels are pronounced as separate syllables.
In 2022, I vote for more civility, more Oxford commas, and more diaereses.
Thank you for addressing this and for taking action. Unfortunately I see this behavior everywhere on social media. It’s almost like people are actively seeking out confrontations over the most trivial of things.
I know there have been times when I may have been "snarky" or it seems like it came across that way. I blame it on putting my foot in my mouth while also having my head up my anal cavity. I think a lot of the "bitchiness" as it is has to do with this ongoing cornavirus crap; I know I am sick of it. And the fact that the former Putin wanna-be just won't shut up and all the invertebrates in congress that have their lips firmly welded to his ass [but in private say he's a dick]. I am actually sick of both sides right now. I made a comment on a local neighborhood Facebook page about a national chain putting in self-checkouts and at last count over 200 comments from people defending them for doing it and threatening me over it and others saying it's destroying workers lives by doing that. I didn't say one way or the other what I preferred. I can remember way back in the 70s when I made a derogatory comment about Nixon and the old man man went off on me that 'He's the president and you WILL respect him." Yet when it's a Democrat in there he wasted no time slagging them every chance he could get. He's dead now but my mom continues to spout that all Democrats are evil and will end up in Hell. I blame it on dementia.
I do enjoy the blog and usually bite my tongue [or try to] when I see something that twerks me the wrong way. Most of the time I succeed. Sometimes, I don't but usually after I have a bad day of my back killing me or my heart trying to do the same. I apologize for past sins and any future ones.
Never pass up a good opportunity to shut up. Oops...my bad.
I'm always afraid that one of these days you're going to pack it up and stop all together and I sure don't want that to happen.
I really enjoy Ken's posts and reading comments on the blog and overall it's a positive experience. Any negative remarks are blips and don't really seem to take over the whole thread. There are some amazing people here who contribute notes on their experiences working in writing and the arts and relate interesting stories about great achievers who are friends or family.
But mainly I appreciate being part of a world here of people who love comedy and all the lore and traditions past and present. I participate in another writing forum and it's dominated by aficionados of horror, sci fi, true crime, etc.; comedy seems undervalued or even despised. I may tend to overshare or stray off topic, but that's a pitfall of having this place to express freely and openly one's little peccadillos.
Too many people hide behind the relative anonymity of the Internet, or use the “I’m entitled to my opinion” mindset when it comes to commenting. I see it all the time on social media and a lot of the snark is totally unnecessary. I’m trying not to engage anymore, even on your posts when I see something out of line from another poster.
I agree that I find the comments often less enlightening (although when someone like Betty White dies and commenters tell personal stories about her, it feels some serious redemption is going on).
Friday question: Applebee's is using the full lyrics to the Cheers theme song in a commercial. Knowing you, I suspect you're glad for whomever gets royalties on it, but my reaction was pretty negative to the idea that this is a place where "everybody knows your name." They had a tag line about welcoming back regulars, but I seriously doubt there's a lot of Applebee's that have much of the same personnel they had before the pandemic. Plus, it's an Applebee's. Much like I didn't understand the Cheers themed bars in the one place where nobody ever knows your name--an airport--I just don't think it's right for a national chain to seek to appropriate what was, after all, a vibe based on it being pretty much a one off place. Your thoughts?
I just found this blog and so far, it strikes as very honest, funny, generous, and insightful from one of TV's great writers. What a gift! I never post anything but to hear that amateur hacks out there have the temerity to critique the work of one of the most successful writers in television is beyond ridiculous. Pure posturing. A little less hubris from the wannabes out there, a bit more humility and maybe they'd actually learn something.
I just found this blog and so far, it strikes as very honest, funny, generous, and insightful from one of TV's great writers. What a gift! I never post anything but to hear that amateur hacks out there have the temerity to critique the work of one of the most successful writers in television is beyond ridiculous. Pure posturing. A little less hubris from the wannabes out there, a bit more humility and maybe they'd actually learn something.
Ken,
I really enjoy your blog. I'm a pilot and I work in the aerospace industry, which is pretty far from Hollywood, and before 2016 I had always voted Republican for president. I don't have any Hollywood experience at all, other than as a viewer and fan, but I find it all very fascinating. I'm always interested to learn how people work together to accomplish goals, whether it be going to the moon or producing a hit TV show, play, or baseball broadcast. I've been reading your blog for about a year now.
As for the comments, it's your blog, it's your platform, it's your page, it's your choice how it looks and what is says. Manage the comments however you want. Being creative is hard work and personal; if people want to dump on your work on your page, they should expect their comment to be deleted. They should understand that they should be constructive to you and each other. Keep up the blogging. I read everyday, and it's great.
My mother always said, “If you can’t say anything nice about anyone, then you’re related to us.”
I'm surprised you hadn't encountered such negativity much earlier. For me, internet chat forums have been filled with trolls since the day I first logged onto the internet. 1993. It's a testament to your blog that it's been civil for so long. Anyway, what about posting cartoons and turning off comments? I hardly look at comments and it would be terrible to see you self censor over this. After all, I come here for you, not the chatter. By the way, sometimes I disagree with your politics but I normally let it slide. But you're rarely political, extremely rarely, which is another reason I make this blog a daily visit.
Amen! We should all practice good manners more during these trying times. Thanks for righting the ship, Ken.
Post a Comment