Tuesday, March 31, 2020

What I learned from Neil Simon

Thomas Tucker posed a Friday Question asking what was so remarkable about Neil Simon? Yesterday, I gave an overall perspective. Today, I want to share my personal feelings.

I never took a course in comedy writing. I never read a book on how to write comedy. I may have skimmed a few while standing in a bookstore (historical note: At one time physical books were available in stores that sold them.) I learned by watching shows I admired like THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW and THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW, and by reading plays by my playwright idols.

George S. Kaufman & Moss Hart were particular favorites. Comedies they wrote in the ‘20’s and ‘30s still held up in the ‘60s and ‘70s. I was drawn to them because their comedy was very character-based. Smart interesting people were put in funny situations and reacted in surprising ways, and more than that, said really funny things as a result. I love verbal humor. Not “jokes.” Funny lines that stem from attitude.

And I discovered early on that no one did that better than Neil Simon. He has a couple of thick volumes of his collected plays. And those were my “graduate school.” I studied his construction, the types of jokes he went for. I tried to figure out his thought process. I studied his plays for rhythm, flow, for making every character seem real and yet endlessly funny.

What kind of joke goes where? When does a joke get in the way? How do you set up misunderstandings? How do you find humor in serious situations? He doesn’t just hit you with a string of jokes. He structures scenes and situations so that the comedy builds. He employs various tropes, like “call backs.” There’s tremendous craft in a Neil Simon play.

So a lot of what I know about comedy writing I learned directly from him, or more accurately, his example.

Once he moved out to California in the ‘80s he started writing his plays here and instead of taking them out of town before Broadway, he would mount them here. New Haven’s loss is LA’s gain. I used to go to the first or second preview and a few months later, fly to New York to see the finished Broadway version. I was fascinated by what changed, what he did to improve it – and improve it he always did. I would watch the previews and figure out what I’d do to improve it. Then I was always heartened to see the final product and in many cases the issues I saw as problematic he did too. But he addressed them better and funnier than I would have.

At the previews I used to see him in the last row with a pad and pen taking notes. Oh, what I wouldn’t give to have one of those pads! Or even just read one.

So I’ve now spent two days hyping Neil Simon, and Thomas, all I can say is if you ever saw a really GOOD production of THE ODD COUPLE on stage, I guarantee you a light bulb would go on and you’d SEE what all the praise is about. He changed Broadway, and he changed comedy, and he changed me.

23 comments :

Joe said...

I understand that you are Gal Gadot fan, but what did you think of her song with other celebs?

And also the resulting backlash from the public.

You can see it here : instagram.com/p/B95M4kNhbzz/


In these trying times too Hollywood celebs stick out, here are a few :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8167509/PIERS-MORGAN-20-Cov-idiots-far.html

Sean said...

Thanks for a very good blog post. Nice and non-virusy.

I'll take your advice and look for a good production of the ODD COUPLE when I can go to a theatre again.


Sean

Joe said...

There's a TV foundation interview with Tony Randall where he mentions "The Odd Couple" play, which he had done before the TV show, then after the show, where he would do it with Jack Klugman to raise money for his National Theater.

Tony said the play was so well-written that amateur actors got the same laughs he and Jack Klugman did.

Craig Gustafson said...

I saw the pre-Broadway tryouts in Chicago of "The Goodbye Girl" and the female version of "The Odd Couple." I had a mezzanine seat, and coming back after intermission through the mezzanine lobby, I passed Neil Simon - pacing furiously and not looking happy. Which brings up...

When "The Producers" was trying out in Chicago, I went with a group. People were scrambling back into the theater after intermission, and a friend was approached by a small, elderly man.
MAN: What the fuck is going on?
MY FRIEND: They started without blinking the lobby lights.
MAN: Son of a bitch!
And Mel Brooks stormed into the theater.

STRUCTURE: After writing a lot of 10 minute plays for contests and getting my Dramatists Guild card, I decided to write a full-length play, and studied several scripts that I liked. I picked "Don't Drink the Water" by Woody Allen. Not the jokes. Not the plot. Purely the structure, because it matched the type of play I was working on - a mainly verbal comedy with bursts of slapstick. It worked, and my play was picked up for a local production. It was cast a few weeks ago... and promptly shut down due to the pandemic. Postponed until next year.

Tom said...

Regarding plays from the 20s and 30s holding up in the 70s....My high school English teacher (the sainted Joan Meyer) had us read "The Man Who Came to Dinner" aloud in class one day, early 70s. A bunch of typical (aka mostly uninterested) sophomores were cracking up throughout. Good is good.

David Russell said...

In my 20's, I was fortunate enough to be cast twice in productions of Barefoot in the Park, still some of my best experiences. Recently, a local company was putting on one of his "Laughter on the 23rd Floor," set in the writers' room of a variety show (based, apparently on his Show of Shows experience). I read the script, thinking I might audition. It was the first time I'd read it and the first Simon play I read that just didn't land for me. It felt really dated and, for me, the material doesn't hold up like his others do. But hey - one in a catalog the size of his collection is a pretty great score card. Generally, his material is so solid, even mediocre high school drama productions pull them off well.

Jason Roberts said...

For ten years from 1993 - 2003 I lived in a duplex in West LA that was two doors down from a duplex that Neil used as his office to write in. From time to time, I would see him go in and out, while I was walking my dog. One day my dog was off leash and bounded quickly to him as he was leaving his place. I shouted ahead "Don't worry, he doesn't bite." Neil quickly shouted back, "Don't worry, I don't either!" We had a lovely ten minute conversation after as I was leashing my dog.

SharoneRosen said...

Robbed, whaddya mean robbed?
People came in, they took things out. Robbed.

That's what I call Rhythm.

Cedricstudio said...

Ken, I'm sure you've probably seen this already but someone has taken a bunch of MASH scenes out of context and edited them to look like they are clips from a coronavirus episode. As of right now it has over 130,000 shares on Facebook. It might be my favorite thing I've seen all quarantine: https://www.facebook.com/frankvacc/videos/10219653484705743/

Kevin FitzMaurice said...

No disrespect intended to Sen. John McCain, but his death on Aug. 25, 2018 overshadowed Neil Simon's the following day.

D McEwan said...

I've not seen The Odd Couple onstage, but I saw Art Carney and Barbara Barrie play The Prisoner of Second Avenue live onstage. That was great. And it was about something besides getting laughs or Neil working out his difficulties with women. (I saw a stage production of Jake's Women. Bored me silly. Straight guys!)

Right now we're all prisoners in our homes. I'm the Prisoner of Sherman Way.

D McEwan said...

"Anonymous Kevin FitzMaurice said...
No disrespect intended to Sen. John McCain, but his death on Aug. 25, 2018 overshadowed Neil Simon's the following day."


Not at my house.

"Tom said...
Regarding plays from the 20s and 30s holding up in the 70s....My high school English teacher (the sainted Joan Meyer) had us read "The Man Who Came to Dinner" aloud in class one day, early 70s. A bunch of typical (aka mostly uninterested) sophomores were cracking up throughout. Good is good."


I was in a college production of The Man Who Came to Dinner in 1975, and every laugh landed, though we had a hell of a time trying to acquire penguins.

"Anonymous David Russell said...
Recently, a local company was putting on one of his "Laughter on the 23rd Floor," set in the writers' room of a variety show (based, apparently on his Show of Shows experience). I read the script, thinking I might audition. It was the first time I'd read it and the first Simon play I read that just didn't land for me. It felt really dated and, for me, the material doesn't hold up like his others do."


That play is not "dated." It's a period piece. You might as well call Death of a Salesman or My Favorite Year dated.

As it happens, I saw the original Broadway production of Laughter on the 23rd Floor. It was not dated, but it was damn funny. Now there is a play where the wildly-different TV-movie version really ruined it.

flurb said...

A great couple of posts, Ken and the positive Simon appreciations in the comments are enjoyable too! Stay well everybody.

Rob D said...

And now, one of my favorite sketches from SCTV: Neil Simon's Nutcracker Suite
https://youtu.be/sBRCbRtNuNU?t=1306

Cap'n Bob said...

I was in a 1973 college production of The Man Who Came to Dinner and it was boffo.

Simon was definitely a master, and for all the reasons Ken outlined. Dying is easy, comedy is hard; I'm not sure everyone appreciates how much work it takes to make something seem effortlessly funny.

Anonymous said...

"(historical note: At one time physical books were available in stores that sold them."

Friday Question:

Why do Baby Boomer comedians (including yourself and Colbert) persist in this comedy idea that book stores and DVD stores do not exist?

There are still plenty of stores selling books (and DVD's) out there. They are not as prevalent as the past, but they certainly exist in major shopping areas.

They haven't gone the way of buggy whips and street horse troughs yet.

I suspect comedians believe it makes themselves look cool and hip to younger audiences by saying this.

To me it suggests more of an elitist attitude suggesting comedians don't go out very much (up to a few weeks ago) other than to upscale restaurants and the like.

Only the maid goes near a Walmart or shopping mall - along with the common folk of all ages.

To me, if anyone is laughing, it's more at the comedian's elitist ignorance.


And yes, I am a babyboomer.

Pete Grossman said...

D McEwan - with you on all points.

Anonymous said...

Why do Baby Boomer comedians (including yourself and Colbert) persist in this comedy idea that book stores and DVD stores do not exist?

My thought is that there is this little word called hyperbole. Can be a lot of fun used correctly as Ken demonstrates repeatedly, especially in his great rants.

cheers
Dave

JAS said...

Off topic, but I'm currently updating my media collection and I'm trying to decide whether to replace my DVD version of MASH with the remastered version available on Amazon. They made it widescreen. The HD is gorgeous, of course, but it was originally framed as 4:3, so they've cropped it to make it 16:9. Here are some comparison images for reference: https://imgur.com/gallery/rwuLUoF

What are your thoughts? And WHY do studios do this? Look what they've done to Buffy and The Simpsons and, ugh, this is why we can't have nice things...

Unknown said...

Randomly picked up a copy of 'The Prisoner of Second Avenue' and a character said, "get me a cup of coffee". Funniest line!! Made me go back, and look at "why'.

Unknown said...

Oh, and Dave,
the difference between now and bookstores is the difference between newspapers and internet. If it's the internet you look for what you want....if it's a bookstore or newspaper you look at what they got.

Wayne said...

Great tribute, Ken. BTW, Woody Allen's new autobiography Apropos of Nothing (worth reading for other reasons) has stories not heard before about Neil Simon and his brother Danny Simon.

thomas tucker said...

Thanks, Ken- these posts gave me a lot to think about. And I have a new resolution- to see some Simon plays live on stage instead of on a screen. Appreciate everyone's comments about this as well.