Guy is jilted and goes on vacation to tropical paradise. Once there, guy finds the woman who jilted him is staying right next door. Guy hooks up with another woman. Awkward scene as the two couples have dinner together. Guy fakes having loud wild sex to make the jilt-ee jealous.These are scenes from FORGETTING SARAH MARSHALL now playing in a theater near you.
They are also scenes from the two-part FRASIER episode “Adventures in Paradise” written by David Isaacs and me fourteen years ago (now playing on a cable channel near you).
That said, FORGETTING SARAH MARSHALL had several funny Judd Apatow moments and even though the story was paper-thin and it looked like they filmed this “Hawaii” movie in Oxnard I still found it to be a very serviceable romcom (which by today's romcom yardstick is a rave).
The TV spoofs and the “opera” scenes alone are worth the price of (first-showing matinee) admission.
But one thing we didn’t do on FRASIER was have Kelsey Grammer show his willy.
Jason Segal showed his though in FORGETTING SARAH MARSHALL. Several times. There are many euphemisms for penis. You can add one more -- Nakamora (regulars to this blog know what that means).
According to fifteen interviews I’ve read, producer Judd Apatow has taken it upon himself to shatter this long-standing taboo of full-frontal nudity. I guess every man’s gotta have his own sacred crusade. And that’s fine except in FORGETTING SARAH MARSHALL I didn’t find it funny. Apatow said that during test screenings the audiences just howled during those scenes. Huh? No one in my audience even laughed.
Now don’t get me wrong – I’m all for a good penis joke. The drawings in SUPERBAD were hilarious and how could comedy writing rooms generate humor and self loathing without them? But something happens when you actually see the Full Monty on the screen. The initial reaction tends to be jarring and often times that’s just enough to kill the funny. And when it comes to laughs, size really does matter.
In the movie we wrote, VOLUNTEERS, there’s a scene where Peace Corps supervisor/boy scout/CIA agent John (Tim Thomerson) gives volunteer Beth (Rita Wilson) a small gift to show his affection. We wanted the gift to be a little off-kilter to signal to her that this guy may be a little weird. We discovered that there were these small Burmese statues that had huge penises. The perfect gift from any psychopath.
My partner and I were on hand for some of the editing, watching on a small movieola. There’s a point in that scene where the director had inserted a close-up of the statue. We questioned the wisdom of that. He argued that the audience wouldn’t get the joke if they only saw the statue in a master. Later that week we had a test screening. When this GIANT close-up of a penis filled the entire screen the women in the audience gasped and shrieked. David and I had to leave the theatre we were laughing so hard. Needless to say, the close-up came out.
Did they need to be so explicit in FORGETTING SARAH MARSHALL? I don't know. Maybe I saw it with an audience of Quakers. For all I know Jason Segal's penis tested better than he did. (I'm sure it tested better than Kristen Bell.) What did you think?
If you loved it, maybe there's time to get Kelsey to do some re-shoots for the DVD re-release.
61 comments :
Ken, have you seen ~Eatsern Promises~? With Viggo Mortenson. Full frontal Viggo Mortenson.
I'm going to pencil in ~Forgetting Sarah Marshall~ for tomorrow afternoon. A penis during a matinee seems a bit more civilized than oh, say, a penis after 7 pm...
I LOVE Viggo Mortenson in ~A Walk On The Moon~ as the blouseman!!!!
And he doesn't show his penis. Harvey Keitel(sp?)is also a full-frontal actor, is he not? There are plenty of other gents in same such club. Perhaps Judd Apatow hasn't seen many films? I dunno.
I see Judd around. In the super market produce section. Once on my walkabout, I saw him sitting in the nail salon waiting for his wife to finish her mani/pedi--on a high holy day. In the Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf. Now I'm kinda thinking that next time I see him in the 'hood, I'll be thinking to myself...~there goes the penis guy, there he goes~.
I loved Sarah Marshall; thought it was pretty consistently funny throughout, despite the paper thin plot as you mentioned.
As for the penis scene, I was in a pretty packed theatre at the Arclight Hollywood, and it seemed to me it got a lot of laughs. But I don't think its inclusion was intended strictly for that purpose. It also upped the ante on the emotional devastation Segal's character is experiencing. If nothing else, it put a different spin on the standard breakup scene.
The shots are actually quite brief, nothing compared to the rather extended close shots of that dude in the Walk Hard orgy scene. In THAT case, the presence of the penis was pretty much the whole joke, and the unexpectedness of it made it work. In FSM, it's more about the character - the film is actually bookended by penis scenes that contrast in an interesting way.
A friend and I just watched WALK HARD last night. Now we watched the director's cut, half an hour longer than the theatrical cut. I haven't seen the theatrical cut and, as the disc is enroute back to Netflix, shan't see it, so I don't know if the penis shots in that were in the theatrical version. All I know is that all the penis shots in WALK HARD had us screaming with laughter.
Of course, as a gay man who is all in favor of full-frontal male nudity, while supporting increased covering up of women (Naked women! Ew! Gross!), I may react differently.
I gotta get my eyes rechecked. I had to read "For all I know Jason Segal's penis tested better than he did. (I'm sure it tested better than Kristen Bell.)" three times before I saw that the operative word was "tEsted", and not another extremely-similar word my eyes kept telling me was there.
But, until Judd Apatow shows his own schvancetucker, he's a cop-out. He needs to put his money-maker where his mouth is, so to speak.
But I remain glad that Kelsey didn't display his pride, since:
A. I don't want to see his, and
B. I don't think NBC would have aired it, the Victorian prudes.
PS. I saw Sagel on Letterman, and he said the scene was based on a real event in his life, when a girlfriend did in fact break up with him while he was naked. So it's not so much comedy for us as therapy for him.
I guess this begs the question, did Jason watch FRASIER "Adventures in Paradise" (Which I've seen on cable twice in the last four months) immediately after his nude break-up?
d. - I've got the extended, uncut (tee hee) Walk Hard waiting to be watched this weekend, but I did see the theatrical cut upon first release, and yep, there's plenty of that penis to be seen in that version.
Put this in my "I Couldn't Care Less" file.
I think Hollywood is so out of touch with it's target audiences. Largely the audience for a romcom is going to be young couples on dates or groups of women on girl's night out. If I was on a first date I think I would feel awkward sitting next to my date during a scene like that. I think it shows signs of Apatow's insecurity about his work that he feels he has to "shock" his audience with full frontal. If he was confident enough about the quality of his material he probably wouldn't feel the need for his personal quest to have male nudity in all of his movies (which I think is a thinly veiled excuse for "I couldn't write this scene funny/sensitive enough so had to put a penis in it to jazz it up").
PS. d.mcewan, I LOVE the fact you used the word "shan't" - I thought I was the only one left saying it and after a few yanks commented on my saying it, I couldn't figure out if I was out of touch with the U.S. vernacular or just an Aussie renaissance girl. Then again I am living in Idaho... =)
I haven't seen "forgetting Sarah Marshall".
However, I must say the penis shot in "Walk Hard" was hillarious. The phone conversation Dewey was having with his wife was so trivial and unimportant. The whole scene was built around having this naked man with a tiny youth-like penis standing behind Dewey for the entire scene.
Then he'd walk away, and you'd be able to pay attention to the phone conversation again.
But then he'd return, simply standing there with his little johnson, causing you to say "AWWWW COME ONNN!!" and laugh out of embarassment.
I haven't watched Forgetting Sarah Marshall, but if his johnson was... sizeable... then that alone would've killed the humor.
Wasn't there also a very bad Blake Edwards movie with fluorescent condoms and walking penisses in the dark?
The double Frasier episodes is one of the best. It's just such a great idea.Did it come fully formed or was it developed from a premiss?
Full frontal is fine with me, but I think it lacks comedic value in the same way as a woman full frontal would. In Something About Mary there was a good nudity laugh with Matt Dillon looking through the binoculars. It would have to be the same kind of joke to be a true laugh for male nudity. A shock laugh just doesn't have the endurance.
I say you can't go wrong having the character cover up with something sacred, like John Cleese covering up with that lovely picture of those kids' mom in A Fish Called Wanda.
Walk Hard's penis shot was golden, gnashe.
I dunno, bianca, FSM isn't exactly While You Were Sleeping or You've Got Mail. Neither were 40 Yr Old Virgin, Knocked Up or There's Something About Mary. For one thing, they're rated R. The target audience is people who can handle a little raunch in their romcoms. It's definitely a commercial risk, and I think if Apatow were truly insecure about the material, male nudity would be the last thing he'd be adding to his films.
I'm sure a lot of people who would otherwise like FSM will skip it because they've heard about the penis shots (almost all the press surrounding the film focuses on them). The opening weekend grosses weren't terribly impressive, and I'm sure some studio bean counter has already calculated how many more millions they would've made without that willy. Hell, they probably calculated it before production started. My guess is that Apatow will quietly drop his rather silly "crusade" and just concentrate on making with the funny. I concede that FSM would be just as funny without the 5 seconds of Segel-sausage, but I also think the scene works as is.
Ken, you're blog has been having a lot of adult content recently. Have you noticed?
haha
I haven't seen the movie yet, but here's what I don't get about the joke as described. In walk hard the penis joke was funny, to me at least, because they set it up with a whole lot of ridiculous female nudity. So just when I'm thinking "wow that's really gratuitious" suddenly there's a penis and it's funny because there's almost never gratuitous male nudity. But in FSM, the joke is that it's funny for somebody to be broken up with while naked. Actually showing that he's really naked doesn't add anything to the joke.
Uhhhh...those wang shots were totally, obviously egregious. The audience I saw it with got it and laughed harder with each shot. Apparently yours didn't get the joke. Too bad?
And I'm supposed to envy THAT?
We had full frontal male nudity on my last project as well and I agree with Ken that the audience didn't find it funny at all.
The fact that my last project was a broadcast of the Kern County Board of Supervisors meeting might have had something to do with it.
But still....
Ken, I haven't seen the movie, but there's no way it could be funnier than your "Frasier" two-parter.
The (smallish) audience I saw it with didn't seem to 'get it' either - even the two guys at the back who were laughing riotously at every other joke in the film.
Personally, I didn't really think the shots added any comedic value to the scene, as has been noted already, and were purely placed there for shock value. But hey, I'm just one guy...
I thought Sarah Marshall was "meh". An okay romcom, but did it really need to be 'R'-rated? I think it would have been more successful (but would have required a better/funnier script) had they gotten rid of the R rating and made it just a regular ol' romcom. But since "40YOV" and the like were all R-rated successes for Apatow, I'm sure there was some pressure to make a similar flick.
Full-frontal, male nudity is funny only when you don't expect it. Guy in a towel and/or dressing room; totally expected, hence not funny. It was, however, very funny in Dewey Cox because they went completely overboard with it.
BTW, I had no idea about the nudity in Dewey Cox and I had Netflix'ed it and watched it on the same day I went to see Sarah Marshall... who I've pretty much forgotten about.
Last Sunday? Total sausage fest.
The audience I saw it with seemed to think it was funny, but an elderly couple walked out.
Personally, I prefer the gigantically projected naked ladies...
What?
The Harold and Kumar flick moved to the top of my to-see list. Thanks for the warning, Ken.
Okay, I guess I've set myself up as "defender of Segel's penis" here, so I'll throw in a couple more comments.
michael: It's not a joke, it's a scene. In fact, it's the inciting incident of the story. I'm sure the filmmakers realized that the willy shots would get a variety of reactions, ranging from "AIEEEEE!" to "HAHAHAHAHA!" to "HARUMPH!" to "YAWN." Love it or flee from it, it does put a twist on the standard breakup scene, and says something about the character too.
emily r.: Of course the film didn't have to be R-rated. No film does. No reason they couldn't have added full frontal nudity to the Harry Potter films, for that matter. Decisions are made about who's being targeted, and the film is edited accordingly. As for full-frontal male nudity only being funny when you don't expect it -- well, isn't that an argument FOR including it in the FSM scene? I, at least, had never seen a romcom breakup scene with male full frontal. If it weren't unexpected, this discussion wouldn't even be taking place.
Whether it's funny, of course, is a matter of personal taste that's beyond debate. Some of us laughed, some of us didn't, some of us were bored, some of us wanted to scrub our eyes with Brillo...that's comedy for ya.
"...it does put a twist on the standard breakup scene"
Yeah, okay, sure, I just didn't feel like it added anything really substantial (no pun intended) to those scenes.
All I was saying (poorly, perhaps) was it felt like it a regular romcom with some R-rated bits (no pun intended) thrown in so it could be marketed as another successful, Apatow, R-rated comedy. 40YOV and Superbad clearly needed to be R-rated due to the subject matter; both movies were about the protagonist(s) trying to get laid.
And you're right, of course; "funny" is subjective, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Male full frontal nudity huh? Doesn't bother me but I think it bothers the actor more. Depends if you're a "show-er" or a grow-er I guess, and, you're standing among your male friends.
Anybody see Marc Anthony in HBO's ROME? AND the "gift" given by Atia? LOL
First thing to note is that the film was written soley by Joel Segel. Those blaming/crediting Judd Aptow for the penis scene have to realize that all he did was agree to the scene (which he obviously would). And the audience I saw it with laughed uproariously during the scene. And while it was funny, it also worked because it highlighted the way the character felt (emotionally exposed).
And considering that the film starred someone most people have never heard of, I think a $17 million opening was fantastic. What exactly are you comparing the opening to?
I enjoyed FSM. Jason Segal's lack of self-consciousness (both clothed and un-) makes him funny and real, IMO. In contrast to, say, Will Ferrell, who tends to go overboard into Obnoxia.
I think the real nudity in the FSM breakup scene gave it more of a push-pull (snerk) feel. Kristin Bell's character wasn't as in control as she would've been had Segal been dressed.
Also, I think the audience is more engaged with both characters with him naked, 'cause deep down, most of us have a primal, emotional reaction to that.
Ken, am I correct in assuming that you knew going in about the penis, thanks to every single article written about the movie mentioning it in the first sentence?
The reason I ask is that I, too, was penis-spoiled, and it wasn't that funny to me, either, but people sitting near me in the theater gasped in shock when the towel dropped (they no doubt hadn't read any of the articles), and they were in hysterics for the whole thing.
Maybe it's entirely a matter of surprise, of certain jokes only being funny if you have no idea that they're coming.
tim w: JASON Segal, but yeah, I knew that. It's just I'm assuming Segel had no say in keeping those shots in the film. Apatow probably did, as you mention. We certainly agree that the scene worked.
As for the $17 million opening, I take your point, but I was under the impression they were expecting a bit more given the marketing campaign and the lack of strong competition in the genre. I wouldn't be surprised if all the penis publicity hurt its opening take to some degree. I'll be very interested to see how it holds this weekend (damn, everything sounds like a bad pun when discussing this subject).
Haven't seen Sarah Marshall, but it sounds kinda like in Knocked Up when there was that odd, out of place vagina shot. In Knocked Up, the vagina shot came at a point where nothing funny really happened for 10-15 before that, and while watching in the theater I thought "OK, they threw that in there because there haven't been any jokes for a while and this is a comedy. That'll get a laugh, or at least a shudder".
Yes. JASON Segel. Don't know why I typed Joel. Guess just to underline the point I made that most people have never heard of him???
As for the opening, from what I gather, it was around what they were expecting. For a April release with no big star, I don't think think you can expect much more than that.
Are there really people who would normally see this type of movie that would actually not go because they read there was a penis scene in it? I find that incredibly amazing. Most women I know might go BECAUSE there is a penis scene, and if you're a guy offended by it, then I'd advise you not to look in the mirror after you get out of the shower.
I think that how funny or memorable the scene ends up being will depend largely on the comic sense of the actor who's "pulling it off," so to speak. In addition, just offering the hint of doing something like that and the comedy that can come out of it quite often is better than the shock value of just blatantly showing it straight out (no pun intended).
I also remember that Frasier episode with (if I recall correctly) JoBeth Williams, and I remember howling during the scene where Frasier was standing on the bed and shaking it aginst the wall to make Lillith and her paramour in the next room think that he and JoBeth's character were caught up in the insatiable throes of ecstasy, and then JoBeth coming out of the bathroom, seeing Frasier, and deciding right then and there that he was some kind of serious head case (didn't realize you and David had written that episode, Ken). Considering that if I go see this movie, I'd probably couldn't stop subconsciously comparing a member of the cast of HOW I MET YOUR MOTHER to one of the most accomplished sitcom actors TV has ever seen, I doubt if I'll go see it; in fact I'm even less inclined to, knowing Jason Segal's wandering around with his exposed wienie dangling here and there...
" Tim W. said...
Yes. JASON Segel. Don't know why I typed Joel."
Perhaps because Joel Seigel writes "Humorous" essays in the L. A. Times, and IS a dick?
Just a theory. Cheers.
Um, WAS a dick, maybe. Joel Siegel died last year.
Jason Segel was one of the best things about one of the greatest TV shows ever, Freaks and Geeks. It kinda pains me that he's probably better know now for How I Met My Mother, though I've heard some good things about that show.
I have to say, I don't completely understand the big commotion over the penis scene. Are people really that uptight over something like that? I also find it interesting that most of the comments against the scene have been from guys. Hey, I'm not exactly thrilled about naked guys walking around me in a lockerroom as if they're in the privacy of their bathroom, but the scene in the movie was funny, and was a great set-up for the rest of the movie. Besides, it's not as if I'm actually in the room with him while he's naked. THAT might make me feel a little more uncomfortable. Not seeing a movie because of a short scene where you see a penis is a little ridiculous, if you ask me.
wait, d. - were you thinking Joel STEIN? It's getting complicated in here.
Joel Siegel was the critic. Jason Segel is the actor/writer. Joel Stein, I don't know. Steven Seagal is the actor who was incredibly out of place as a presenter at the Academy Awards a few years back.
You just won Ben Stein's penis
Speaking of Steven Seagal and the Academy Awards, I loved that bit in the movie "In and Out" in which Matt Dillon's character wins the Best Actor Oscar over such competition as Steven Seagal in "Snowball in Hell." (The other nominees were Paul Newman in "Coot," Clint Eastwood in "Codger" and Michael Douglas in "Primary Urges."
Bah. I say MORE PENII. Big, small, I don't care. Let's see 'em! You all have had lots of nekkid women onscreen. It's payback time, fellas! That's my utterly sophisticated take on it.
If you ever see the movie version (actually, it was the video of an early 1970s closed-circuit production) of OH, CALCUTTA! you'll get enough male nudity to last a lifetime.
The cast inlcudes Bill Macy, Bea Arthur's husband -- "God'll get you for that, Walter" -- on MAUDE. Looking at his naked body, one can only surmise that God DID get him...
rac said "the old couple walked out" I suddenly recalled a similar moment many years ago, at the movie "Liztomania" with Roger Daltrey. The old couple probably thought it was a film about composer Franz Lizt. They left during the scene where someone's riding this gigantic, 20-foot long phallus around in circles.
OH SWEET HEAVEN! I did NOT mean Joel Seigel, who died last year, and was a long-time friend of Ken's. I got mixed up. (The vodka you know) I mean Joel Stein of the LA Times. Can't stand stein. Had nothing against Seigel.
Sorry, sorry, sorry. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
I not only saw the video of OH CALCUTTA in a theater back in 1970, I also saw the show live, in 1987, when it had been running for 18 years, and looked every day of it. (I was the only non-Japanese tourist audience member)By then, it was so old and so out-of-date that it was just embarassing.
I also directed the swingers couple scene from it in college. (Not a sketch with nudity.) One of the male actors had to simulate an orgasm in his pants in the scene. What the actor did at rehearsal was so lame and, yes, limp that it left me pitying whomever he was dating. I actually had to direct him on how to have a (fake) major, comic, full-out, big orgasm.
The paperback, mass-market, published script of OH CALCUTTA back then also had pictures of Bill Macy nude.
Poor Maude. No wonder she had the deeper voice.
The OH, CALCUTTA! movie came to my hometown theater in upstate NY for exactly one weekend in 1972, the first X-rated film it ever showed.
And then the mayor, city fathers and various clergy staged protests outside the moviehouse, complete with bullhorns, condemning the film as a blight on our wholesome community.
Result: EVERYBODY in town over the age of 18 went to see it. The film wound up playing SRO for months and still holds the local box- office record, even after the Lucas/Spielberg generation of blockbusters.
Having seen the DVD, I think it's a dated, unfunny revue. While I can think of a dozen current actresses I wouldn't mind seeing in a 21st century CALCUTTA, it ain't getting revived anytime soon.
jbryant: you make some really good points especially re: the R rating and the film not really being promoted like a You've Got Mail/27 Dresses type of film. Still, with the opening box office being kind of weak, justified or not the press focus on the nudity is probably doing more harm than good for attracting a wider audience and commercial success for the film which is why I question Apatow's repetitive use of irrelevant full frontal. You make a good point for Apatow perhaps being confident of his material in order to take a risk with nudity.
In general though I tend to feel cheated when a quick, clever comedy suddenly goes for unwarranted cheap laughs and shock scenes that come out of nowhere - I really value consistently intelligent, sarcastic humour though so maybe it's just a matter of personal taste. There's Something About Mary had the perfect balance of sympathetic characters AND shock humour relevant to plotlines, but the Farrellys couldn't repeat it for Heartbreak Kid because of the excess in gross-out humour and shock value scenes - I think it had so much promise and could have been awesome if it didn't alienate a lot of its audience.
Thanks for making your comments to my post so respectfully - that can be kind of rare sometimes in blogs and I really appreciate that.
FSM is a $30 million film that grossed $24 million in its first week. That ain't bad at all. And I concur with those that say, while there's humor in the nudity, it's not just there for the humor. It's both thematic and it sets the characters into a certain mode that works well for the initial scene.
I quite enjoyed FSM, even if it is about a shlub whose problem is that he's transitioning between two yummy babes. As a shlub, I appreciate that.
I quite enjoyed FSM, even if it is about a shlub whose problem is that he's transitioning between two yummy babes. As a shlub, I appreciate that.
Which begs the question: With the exception of MY BIG FAT GREEK WEDDING, will we ever see a blockbuster comedy about a schlubby WOMAN's romantic pursuits?
I think the best 'penis' shot in a movie lately was Bart in the Simpsons...quite classy. Did you write that?
biana: and an even bigger thanks to you for your equally respectful reply. I've never understood the vitriol some folks manage to expend on simple disagreements about subjective matters. I won't say I've never taken the bait if someone goes off on me, but at least I hate myself in the morning. :)
and of course I meant bianca, not biana.
"With the exception of MY BIG FAT GREEK WEDDING, will we ever see a blockbuster comedy about a schlubby WOMAN's romantic pursuits?"
We should. A big hit could be done... but you'd somehow have to convince the studio not to make it generic (like some posters seem to have wished on FSM). Gotta get away from the "if this would do well with Kathy Bates, just think how well it'd do with Michelle Pfeiffer!"
nat g: There was also Bridget Jones's Diary, though of course the movie industry's idea of "dumpy" is to feed Renee Zellweger burgers and milkshakes until she reaches a normal weight. Still, an excellent film (the sequel less so).
SHEILA LEVINE IS DEAD AND LIVING IN NEW YORK would be another "schlubby woman's romantic pursuits" movie, and one you'd think would spring to mind faster on the comments page of Ken LEVINE's blog.
And then there was GEORGY GIRL.
I'm pretty late to the party here, but I'm surprised [SPOILER ALERT] nobody has mentioned that the full-frontal in the opening scene could be seen -- in addition to the other fine reasons outlined above -- to merely set up the audience for a laugh with the final scene. Even if you've read all the penis pub (heh), you probably figure you're done with it after that first scene. I know that's how it got me.
I agree with Carla. "The Simpsons Movie" penis shot of Bart was hilarious. For those who haven't seen it, Bart skateboards naked, but strategically placed objects shield his penis from view until he zips past one object that obscures everything but his penis.
Ken, you don't like Kristen Bell?
tc - way upthread I did mention that the film is essentially bookended by penis scenes, but I didn't go into any spoilerish detail. I do think it does more than pay off a joke though; it's also a means of showing a significant contrast between the two women characters.
what about the very funny bits in SIDEWAYS?
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